Eastern mtn sports ripoff

imported
#21

I’m on my 4th, yes 4th pair of Leki Makalu Ultralight poles. The first time a pole tip impacted after about 100 miles, and i returned them to REI. REI sent me new ones.

The 2nd pair had a pole tip impact again after about another 100 miles. This was frustrating. I sent them back to Leki with a letter about how my use of them was pretty much normal, and how i like the poles because they feel good and are the lightest ones out there, but they obviously have a defect in design. Leki sent me new ones, but no response to the letter. Ok, fair enough.

The 3rd pair i took out on my PCT thru-hike. Well, by mile 300 or so, one bent and BOTH had impacted pole tips. I met another hiker who had an impacted pole tip on their Makalu Ultralights. So i went to REI in Santa Clarita to just talk to them about what else i should buy instead. They were practically begging to take my return (they adore thru-hikers there i guess, and i smelled like one), and after trying out other brands and models, they agreed with me that everything else is going to seem clunky by comparison, and if they broke again, just return them. So i left there with my 4th pair.

The 4th pair stuck with me to Canada, with one pole tip impacting in the Sierra about 500 miles later (which i traded out for a mismatched pole, sending the broken one home), and the other actually lasting all the way for another 1200 miles or so beyond that before, you guessed it, the tip impacted. I just used it with no tip at that point for the rest of the way, wearing down the plastic almost to the metal pole itself.

So, a few months later, i still have the broken poles. It just seems abusive of me to send them back for ANOTHER return, yet i want to get the point across that they have a great product with one really critical defect that ought to be fixable. This isn’t something that i’m doing wrong, and it’s not “natural wear” for a pair of poles to break down, on average, every 400 miles. If it were just a tip wearing down, i could replace it, but this is the tip essentially breaking off and being pushed into the plastic contraption.

I went once again to look at other poles, and i don’t like any of them as much as the Makalu Ultralights. So far i have done nothing about the problem.

markv

#22

LEKI offers a 10 year parts availability and service warranty world-wide on all products. So I would say if you are within that timeframe then return them.

Bagel

#23

So I went to REI today and purchased a new pair of zip offs and told them my story from EMS.
They said I was not the first person to come in from EMS with issues.
Have not had a response from EMS yet, only 24 hours.
So I fly out in the morning for a short holiday with my wife.
Then onto springer on the 6th, another great year in the sun on the AT. “yeah there might be some rain”
I will let you know on the 5th as to EMS’s response.
That’s the next time I will get internet access.

Peace, Chestnut

chestnut

#24

As for the comment from nameless about the return of my tent. My #2 dome tent went through 4 sets of poles. All 4 times I chose another set of poles instead of a whole new tent. So please don’t assume that I’m just some prick. Did you honestly think that Bean would take a perfectly good tent back without a good reason?

As for EMS, I enjoy buying other products from them. They have a great selection of items produced by other companies, however I refuse to buy their clothing. It just doesn’t please me the way other do. However, I have EMS Summit TL and have been using it for almost 10 years.

Tell me nameless are you the CEO of EMS or something. You defend it with such conviction.

Chestnut I could not agree with you more, when you buy something you expect it to work and last. What you asked for was not out of line in any way. As I said in an earlier post I think most of the decline in quality from name brands like EMS is due to the non-outdoor consumers who simply buy product for the look and not for the features and intended use of such product.

Super Scout

#25

Allow me my $0.02 in this dialog. We tried to get EMS to replace the tips of poles that were worn out. No dice. We tried to get them to repair a pole that was slipping. No dice.
I bought the bottom of the line poles at REI. I bent the tip of one pole due to a fall. REI gave me a new pair at no charge. Two years later I asked them if they could replace the tips of the replacement poles which were worn down (I expected to Pay). They gave me a new set of poles. They charged me a small differential as the original cheap poles were no longer sold.
Bought a Quarter Dome tent from REI. It was difficult to erect because one of the folding poles was a bit too long. I returned it to REI. Gave me a new tent. Same tent after 3 years of use had a zipper fail. Set the tent to REI and they repaired the tent, better than original, at no charge, except for shipping.
It seems that REI does a better job of standing by its products. Just my opinion.

swamp fox

#26

There’s more than one nameless contributing to this thread. There’s the one pointing out reasonable insights to Chestnut, and then there’s the one getting mad at Super Scout for the 8 year old tent replacement. And then there’s the one contributing this particular post. Actually, just call me spacebar. You can’t really leave the name field blank, of course.

__

#27

I bought a pair of the EMS “Summit” Mountaineering socks. After 2 weeks, one of the socks was developing a hole in the big toe area. I took the socks back to the EMS store and I had the receipt. The clerk gave me a hard time about taking the socks back. But they honored it after things started to get heated. I won’t shop there anymore. Like someone else pointed out, LL Bean has a much better return policy.

EMS is a rip-off anyway; I got an email stating spend $100 and get $25 “gear bucks” on my next purchase. Well I read the terms of that. The “gear bucks” only applies to next purchase of $100 or more.

I stay away from EMS as much as possible.

Hope this helps.

joe-d

#28

I was sorry to see that EMS pulled out of Michigan. I used to shop there quite frequently. Over the years, I’ve bought quite a few items from them, including stoves, clothing, sleeping bags. I’ve always been very satisfied with the EMS brand. My favorite synthetic sleeping bag is my EMS Velocity 35. Great bag.

I’ve never had a problem with rude salespeople, and have never had the need to return an item I purchased from them, so cannot personally comment on their after-sale service. That said, I also purchase from REI and have never had a problem with them either. I have never returned an item to them either.

I guess my philosophy is that I do my research prior to making a purchase, and don’t use a store’s return policy as a research tool. I know many folks on these forums encourage the frequent use (abuse) of REI’s liberal policy. If EMS was running into the same type of abusive customer activity, I can understand their need to tighten-up their policies unfortunately. What are they supposed to do? They cannot sell as new an item that has been returned after being “tried out”.

If the original poster’s account is accurate, then that is unfortunate. A company should stand behind it’s products if they are clearly defective or they lack sufficient durability for their advertised use. I would be upset with EMS if I were him and had a similar experience. Perhaps he should contact EMS’s public relations department and calmly explain his position. They often times have powers beyond the customer service employees. Just a suggestion.

Over-all the outdoor industry has customer service policies that far exceed what we expect from most other consumer product industries. Unfortunately for the outdoor industry, many folks have learned to take unfair advantage of these policies. That is bad for all of us as companies need to tighten their financial belts just like the rest of us.

I think all of us need to examine how we use and encourage others to use the generous policies that exist.

Lyle

#29

"This being said, I’ll share about my ‘hiker-gall’ story.

Some nobo had lost one of his boots. Just one. He asked my co-worker if he could buy just one boot.

“No,” my co-worker replied.

“I can’t get a deal?”

“Nope. What would I do with just one boot?”

The nobo blundered off. "

I actually had this same story on my very first backpacking trip.

Headed from Michigan to the Smokies. Got down there, realized one of my boots had fallen out of our over-stuffed Pinto at some point on the way south. Bought an new pair for the trip. When I got home, I contacted Vasque directly, asked if it would be possible to purchase just a “right” boot giving them the model and size information. They said “Sure, we’ll send it right out”. A short time later I received a new boot with an invoice inclosed. Amount due: $5 for shipping. I’ve been a loyal Vasque customer since.

Lyle

#30

After reading this thread, I checked our web site to make sure there haven’t been any changes in EMS policy within the last 2 weeks. I have been a long time sales associate with EMS, and was appalled at the treatment Chestnut suffered. I do know that if you have your receipt, keyword RECEIPT, there should never be a problem. Even without a receipt, he should have been issued a “Gear Credit” and given replacement under those terms which might not be full credit, depending on the wear and tear of the product when returned. Unfortunately, the whole repair department has been closed in Peterborough, so the nice ladies who replaced zippers, stitched seams, etc are out of a job, too.

Unless you have really been away in the wilderness for a good while, you may have noticed that the retail industry in general is in serious trouble. Many old names are going belly up and/or in the process of reorganization under Chapter 11. Cuts have been made all along the line.

Incidentally, we have had people come in with the NF Denali fleece jackets, to complain that the zipper or the seam was blown. The jackets were counterfeit, so we were in no way obliged to do anything about that (I totally agree with the policy there)

I do hope that Chestnut will contact Customer Service at EMS in Peterborough, NH, and relate what happened. I’ll be waiting to see what happens.

I’m not going to sign this as I usually do because I do like the design of the REI Sahara Convertible pants much better than ours. I’m at the stage in life where IMHO, it’s better to pay full retail in order to get just exactly what you need. :eek: (Remember to save your receipts)

A.T. Hiker

#31

Hey, Thru hiked last year and got 4 free replacements on the cartridge of the MSR hyperflow water filter (i think that’s the name) from EMS wihout any problems from various EMSs on the trail. I finally gave up on the hyperflow because it SUCKS and just use bleach now but, yeah, I didn’t have problems with EMS. I have to agree with the above and am glad he mentioned the problems in the industry. That’s the biggest issue I think. And as for the hyperflow…it needs to be recalled!

hoof

#32

The current hyperflow filter has been recalled because the fast flow was not as advertised.
That being said, REI prides themselves on their 100% satisfaction guarenteed policy. If a product does not meet your expectations we will take it back no questions asked. REI wants to make sure the trip is successful no matter what. Now that is within the life of the product. If a pair of boots met your needs in 1985 but are worn out now then that’s different. The life of the boots has been reached. The return policy is liberal and sometimes is taken advantage of but REI values the travels of their customers. And if you are a member of the REI co-op then you never need a receipt to return something as REI keeps a 5 year purchase history for its members on the books.

I only went in one EMS (Manchester Center, VT) on my 2006 AT thru and the only thing i noticed was that it was a little expensive. REI is all about getting their customers prepared to be successful on any trip they take.:smiley:

Bravefriend GA>ME 2006

#33

I must defend EMS, at least their Manchester, Conn. store. Prior to my 05’AT thru I purchased several items there, explaining how I expected them to be truly tested over the next half year. A down bag had lost its loft considerably after three and a half months. While zeroing afew once back in CT, brought the bag back and they replaced it with any comparable priced bag. Although I do spread the wealth towards any independent retailer out there, once they “know” you at a location, chances are better they serve you well.

fishngame

#34

I bought a Vaude pack on sale at a Rochester, NT EMS years ago. Sixty bucks or so. Thought I’d use it for a few short hikes but ended up using it for 1500-miles on the AT in 2003. Great gear, great pack, never had a problem with it.

Likewise LL Bean has been amazing, still wearing a dress shirt I bought from them 10 years ago. And their Micro-light tent has held up about as long. I would, after all these years, never think or returning any gear, even my old broken Leki’s from my thru. I mean, at some point it is just fun to buy some new stuff and contribute to the economy!

Thanks,

Snack Attack
GAME 03

Snack Attack

#35

I am preparing for an AT thru hike in 2010 and it will be the first time I have gone out on something of this scale. I am on a limited budget but wanted great gear so I spent all of last year gearing up and am spending this year saving money for the trip and buying last minute gear. I got to reading this post and it got me to thinking. I’d hate to get out on that length of a trail and my $200 shoes blow out in the first 20 miles or break a tent pole in the first few weeks, etc. I have bought all but my tent from backcountry.com. I got my tent (REI T1 Quarterdome) elsewhere. I know all about REI, EMS, LL Bean, etc. You can find ppl talking about them in near bout any hikers forum. However, I have honestly never heard of anyone referring to backcountry.com about their great prices, shipping, and return policy. I was just curious as to if anyone around this forums shops with them. So far as I have been able to tell since gearing up for my trip next year they have ALWAYS got EVERYONE beat on prices and their shipping is superfast and free for orders over 50 bux and unlike most ppl having an item’s lifespan return policy they claim to have a 100% lifetime NO QUESTIONS ASKED EVER policy for full refund, not just replacement. I figured if there was a thread for such a grievance to be aired about Backcountry.com this should be the one. So far so good with all the gear I have gotten from them, its nowhere near been put thru the ringer but I have put it to the test. Hopefully I won’t have to return or replace anything, but any suggestions or experiences you may could share would be appreciated.

dan