Foolish - Appalachian Trail

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#41

“A “prison” is not inherent in the family unit -you misrepresented my comments. In fact, I’ve seen many families on trails for the long haul, and many fathers who found a way to balance money/family/long hikes.”

So, as long as having children doesn’t prevent you from doing a long distance hike, it’s not a prison? :slight_smile: I don’t know if you’ve considered this, but there are lots of ways for people to live life on their own terms that don’t involve doing a long distance hike every year. :lol

And just as an aside, there’s no such thing as having a ‘right’ to the wealth created by someone else. You have the right to health care, IF you earn the money to pay for it and find a doctor willing to trade you his services for your money.

Ardsgaine

#42

Great song and most appropriate for the topic. You wouldn’t be the real Tracey C. would you?

carey

#43

This is a great discussion, and I wish more topics like this were talked about and debated on here because we’ve got a lot of diverse opinions. I too am struggling (while still in undergrad) to figure out a life that will make me happy (with some work or hiking or combination of the two).

Arthur, you simply have a different way of looking at things compared to many people on this site. I respect your commitment and hard work so that your kids can have a priveledged childhood. My parents did similar for me and I’m most appreciative of it. Would I have been dissapointed if my dad picked up and went for a hike when I was 12? Who knows. As for a “six-month vacation” it depends solely on how you look at things. For a lot of people, myself included, a hike is not a vacation by any means. Its life. It was hard work and there wasn’t a day that was “easy”. It was fun, but not easy. You may have to thru-hike to truely grasp what I mean. And I hope you get to someday if you want to. If you are accustomed to working all year to get 2-3 weeks “vacation” then more power to you. Glad you enjoy your work, the world would be a better place if more people could say that. Just because other folks choose to live life in a different way doesn’t mean they are detracting from society or are takers. Part of your response makes me think you feel you are tied down though. Are you feeling pressure to be part of society that must work, so that all us irresponsible folks can go have a good time in the woods? This is not the case. If you wanted to thru-hike, we wouldn’t pass judgement. :slight_smile: To me you’re saying two different things here.

A-Train

#44

Boy, I was starting to think I was wrong to think that becouse I Love my wife and two kids plus my job I was big loser. I considered a thu hike back in 1980 when I had just finished college and the job I had was, well dropable, then I got my act together landed a great job, ( in a non-profit) and got down to living a great life. Now we all get out on the trail as much as we can (5-6 weekends a year and a 10-12 day VACATION) and I plan on doing a thu in 12 years when I retire. Sure I could get sick and die next week or get killed in a car crash but those are things I can’t control. Now, what I can control is paying off my house and helping my kids get their lives started. This will all be done before my wife and I retire. Then we plan to do a thru hike. But if the plan for any reason changes and no hike comes to be, well, it just was not to be. No regrets. The time I have spent on the AT has been great. I guess we all should add to “hike your own hike” “live your own life”

totally Boagus

#45

When your standing on the big K the amount of money you spent will never cross your mind. Money can’t buy the life changing experience that is a thru hike. What’s up Superman! Hope to see you @ Trail Daze

Feral03

#46

Does anyone remember the old Disney cartoons about the bears in, I think it was Yosemite National Park? There was the park ranger who would get them all together and make them clean up the park, and would sing that song, “first you pick it up, then you put it in the bag. Boom! Boom! That’s the way it’s done. It’s a lot of fun. Boom! Boom!”

Well… anyway, there was this one bear who was always doing stupid crap and getting into trouble. In one scene, all the bears had gone down to the river to catch salmon. The stupid bear got all excited and just started grabbing up all the fish he could see. He filled his arms up, and then one more fish swam by. He made a grab for it, and all the other fish in his arms fell back into the river and got away. The expression on his face was classic. He did the same thing two or three times, always losing his fish and always with the same sad, stupid expression when he realized what he had done.

It’s kind of a silly cartoon, I guess, but there’s a good lesson in it. There are a lot of fish swimming around out there in the world and you can’t have them all. Decide which ones you want, hang on to them and let the others swim on.

I’ve got most of the fish I want. An AT thru-hike fish would be nice, but it’s gravy. I’m not going to drop my other fish for it. Maybe I’ll get to pick it up along the way, maybe not. No biggie. In the meantime, there are lots of other hiking-fish I can pick up without risking the Really Important Fish. That’s enough to make me happy, and I really could care less if someone else looks at my life and thinks he sees a prison.

Ardsgaine

#47

“The only reason that the country can afford it is because the vast majority of people keep the economic machine running and do NOT hit the trail every spring for 6 months”

…to the economic machine you speak of, arthur. i mean when i hike, all i need is food. my eating food doesnt seem to rely so heavily on the huge machine hell bent on selling anything to anyone, driving them into debt, taking thier jobs overseas, and ravishing the planet. just to sell crap. i dont want that. i want food. granted, public money funds the trails i walk, but such a slim percentage compared to the money spent on world destroying and crap selling. and alot of that money is spent beating the machine away from the wilderness’s ever-grey borders. were we not so maladjusted, taxes gathered from a nation of incomes like my four digits would suffice to fund the trails.

and i really feel no need to thank you and the other bigger cogs for the jobs that get me through the off season. “gee, arthur, thanks for letting me wash your dishes for seven dollars an hour! i am so grateful to the machine for this opportunity.”

the country isnt affording my hike, i am affording my hike, compliant with the machines standards. those that like cars and stereos, dvd collections and plasma tv, and general manic consumtion can thank the machine. that is what the machine affords us. it affords us the numb pleasure of ruining the planet. that indeed is priceless.

so far as when i am 60 i will be bitching about social security, i am fully prepared to kill myself when i am not fit to live, should i have no cache since i was too busy, well, enjoying the present instead of fretting about the future. long walk in the desert, like that guy in desert solitaire. if i am lucky, they will catch me and arrest me and send me to jail, which will be only a little worse than a nursing home, but free! then i will thank your taxpayer dollars.

were the machine ethical, and directed towards human happiness instead of gnp, perhaps i would join it. but i am grateful to the founding fathers for giving me the right to abstain if i choose.

i am just being argumentitive, arthur. i am so glad you have posted, since it gives us something well articulated to think about. as you can see from the other 45 posts, here we usually just preach to the converted. best wishes to you and your family.

milo

#48

i don’t know bout all of you, but after a long day of hard work i feel as the late great Harry Chapin put it “a good tired”, and i know that the day went to something useful, i’m sure that hiking gets that same feeling out of someone, so i guess instead of living each day to its fullest we should live each day 100% watever that means doing, cause just like a lot of things, u get out of life wat u put into it

clong

#49

But I’ve been learning my lessons from walking through Yosemite rather than watching cartoons about them.
If I had kids, that might be different. My father introduced me to the Appalachians Mts backcountry when I was two. I value those boyhood trips immensly. They truly defined me. Families are not prisons. They are opportunities for the expression of freedom. I believe your and Arthurs and Bearbait’s families are capable of doing whatever they are set on doing -whether its thru-hiking, weekend hiking, or no hiking at all. You’re right, it’s a matter of priorities and choices. Ya’llou all have the unique opportunity to teach them how to be free. I’m glad you’re out there.

Tha Wookie

#50

well, all i have to say is that i was out there in '01 and did pretty much what you did bearbait…then i was back out in '03 to finish what i knew i my heart i needed to finish.

zero

#51

I wonder is some people think that work is intrinsically “bad,” aka that if you work 40 hrs a week, you lose your soul and sell out to man, like in that movie “Office Space.” Sure, working at the bank or the dry cleaners isn’t so exciting, but it doesn’t make you the devil, does it? And there are lots of satifying, non-evil-corporation jobs out there…Anyway, if you don’t want to work, it’s okay (as long as no one else has to finance it) and if you do, you do. Most people have responsibilities & obligations that make being jobless & free impossible, anyway…but our economy is weird, isn’t it? It’s based on how much you go SHOPPING…

Avalon

#52

It’s real easy to sit behind your expensive computers and tell someone else to waste their savings. Money is the foundation of our society afterall.

T-Role

#53

The meaning of money.

Ardsgaine

#54

Cool.

A-Train

Well I will admit to being a 46 yo. That probably gives me about 20-25 more years to think about “stuff” and observe things that the other posters here that are maybe 20-25 yo have not yet gotten to see. Doesn’t make me right all the time or perhaps even part of the time. It may mean my words can be spread on a farmer’s field where they’ll do some good.

It does give me a different perspective as you say. I have had time to observe the consequences of decisions I made in my 20’s as well as decisions made by many others in their 20s. I know many who decided to not pursue economic gain as a primary goal but worked very hard and productively in artistic pursuits and have added to my quality of life so that’s great. I know many who have worked in pursuit of economic gain and who have a hell of a lot more money than me and I’m not jealous because they’ve earned it with their hard work. Some appear to be happy and some not. The income level seems to not matter. However, I know many who have fooled around with their education, fooled around with their jobs, fooled around on their spouse, or messed up their kids. They’re bitter and they can’t figure out how they got where they are even though it’s a direct consequence of their own “foolish” decisions. I just hoped BB would think clearly about what she was doing and understand the consequences so she doesn’t end up someplace she doesn’t want to be. Kinda’ like staying on the white blazes if you really want to get to Maine.

I AM tied down with responsibility right now. There is nothing that I do that I don’t have to consider the impact on my wife and kids. Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Some people here apparently think that it is. When I’m on my death bed, if I haven’t through hiked the AT I may regret it. If I mess up my relationship with my wife or I foul up one of my kids because I didn’t try hard enough will surely regret it. I know too many people who already are regretting things they’ve done and they’ve still got about 30 years to live with it.

“Vacation” was the wrong choice of words to describe a thru-hike. I’ve hiked enough to know it’s hard but, 6 moths is really a fairly short time to stick with something. Let’s make a deal. I’ll hike 2,200 miles in your shoes and you hike 25 years in my shoes and then we’ll compare notes. :wink: I’ll bet we’ll both conclude that they’re both hard but different. My target date is '07 and I’ll turn 50 on the trail so if this site is still here I’ll let you know then.

Milo

I think everyone here would agree that the natural ecology is all “connected”. Like it or not the “economic ecology” is all connected too. You may think you’ve divorced yourself from the economy while hiking but I think you’re mistaken. Every economic decision each of us makes has an impact on someone else.

For example, all along the trail there are people who are well off enough that they can afford to just show up unannounced and give out free food. FREE FOOD! Where did they get the money to do that? If they thenselves were starving would they stil do it? There are people who have the cars and gas to drive hikers all over just 'cause they feel like it. Where did they get the cars and gas? All those resupply places? Some are in it just for fun but most are regular people trying to earn a living. They’re not out hiking. Or if they are they’ve hired someone to keep the store open. I could go on and on. It’s commerce partner, it ain’t so bad, and it’s not all crap.

As far as the national economy is concerned there are taker outers and putter inners. We are each one or the other at various stages in our lives. If the taker outers exceed the putter inners for very long the whole thing will collapse and that’s the end of LD hiking along with a whole bunch of other stuff I’d rather not lose. As I said earlier, all I’m asking is that the current taker outers not sneer at the current putter inners.

Thanks for being argumentative. This is a real beef jerky topic (good to chew on).

Arthur

#55

Money is the foundation of our society afterall.

Maybe your society… not mine… how about friendship, companionship, love, brotherhood, respect…

bull

#56

Hey Arthur, I want to indentify what I say is Free. I work, I pay taxes, but I live. What do I mean by live? You say. I don’t hold my self down in a gutter, like paying 500 dollar car payments and 1500 dollar house payments and another payment to pay for the swimming pool and the water payment that goes along with it. If I had a family that would be different, but I don’t. So I keep my self free from the burdens that hold us down. I have a car but rarely do I drive it. I ride a bike to work 15 miles one way. That way I keep myself from the burdens from driving and I get a great exercise at the same time. I am free to live to my heart contents. I only want to be truly free. A person can be truly free and not be at the mercy of taxpayer. God knows that I don’t want that. Just go to www.teachingdrum.com and you will get every thing you need to kno. I need to go to work nnow. Yes, I work at night. Talk to you guy and gals later. Keep the Faith.

Spacewalker

#57

The parallel between ecology and economics is interesting. I think they are similar in that they are very complex, and that an affect on one part effects the theoretical whole, but at least to me the economy is far less important in life than the ecology. One includes us, as parts of nature, and the other is a concept we invented (last century). One brings us life, the other seeks to control it for our money.

For the last 60 years, people have been taught to believe that economics are the answer for life, security, happiness, global control, personal control. When those who believe this hear things that undermine the beliefs they’ve “invested” so much of their life in, it’s not suprising how defensive they get. They say things like thru-hiking wouldn’t be possible without a strong economy. When in fact, natives to this and every single continent went on long wilderness walks for personal and spiritual reasons for thousands of years.

In the grand scheme, “economics” is a flash in the pan. To make life decisions based primarily on economics is not advisable IMOP. Those who subcribe to the consumer addiction can pat themselves on the back all they want for being a “putter inner” all they like, because if they suddenly understood different, think of the ramifications! Maybe they would turn “office Space” and start jumping their copy machines… who knows?

This is really not a question of money or economy or thru-hiking being good or evil, as Adarsgaine’s website link likes to simplify. It’s about the factors upon which life decisions are based. How does one describe a rainbow to someone who can only see green?

Tha Wookie

#58

“Great song and most appropriate for the topic. You wouldn’t be the real Tracy C. would you?”

Well, I’m not going to say, but I bet she would smile :slight_smile: if she happened to see that post.

Tracy C.

#59

My husband I and I have been saving for 3 years for our hike. We rent, so we are storing everything, leaving no trace and heading out! No bills while we are out (we are paying for the storage up front, part of the saving plan).

When we come back, we have no place to come back to and no jobs, and that makes me want to go all the more. The freedom of it all. Voluntary homelessness! I get excited thinking about it. No phone bills, no electric bills, no rent, nothing!

When I asked my husband what airport we should fly from (we are coming from the UK), he said ‘doesn’t really matter does it?’ NO IT DOESN’T as we won’t have a home base, or have to worry about where to park the car while we are gone!

What an immense feeling of freedom!!

I guess you can tell, I am suggesting you just go! :smiley:

Jackyd99