Mountain Range Removal:Mountain Justice Summer

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#21

Toes, I really liked your post. It has a lot of good thought in it.

People who work at coal plants, mine the coal, etc are just trying to make a living and feed their families. Some of their children are out protesting the very thing that keeps them alive and feeds them.

People who live within a system (you do), benefit from it (you do), use all of it benefits like electricity (you do), yet complain about it (you do), and have no really workable viable solutions to put forth regarding the things that they protest (you don’t) are merely pissing into the wind and are being very two faced.

You’re only saving grace is that you are continuing the great right within our system to protest whatever. And the system grants you that right and I am thankful and grateful that it does. Because one day I may want to piss into the wind myself.

So I salute you. I critize you to rattle your chains, and piss you off a little. And perhaps open your mind. And maybe you will get off of your anus and actually do something to help out instead of just protest and voice your criticisms.

See you out there.:cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers

Maintain

#22

I think for the most part this has been a good place for discourse. That being said, here’s the thing, I agree that new fuel sources need to be developed to the point they will become mainstreamed. I agree that to destroy a mountain is a terrible thing. However, I do not believe that we are destroying the Earth. To talk in such a manner shows all the vanity and arrogance that is man. The Earth has been here far longer than us, we are a speck of bird crap on 18 wheeler that is the Earth. The planet will probably be here long after we are gone, and it does have the ability to repair itself, granted to our very short lives, that time is far longer than several human lifetimes, but in the history of the planet, as these things are measured, it is not that long. What I am trying to say is that you should keep it in perspective, yes, all of this stuff is bad. Yes, we need to find alternatives, and also come up with job retraining for those that live in these regions, so that they have something else they can do, but to pull the old gloom and doom handle? Come on…the Earth will laugh at you, chew you up, and then spit you out, remember something called the Tsunami a few months ago??? As for the rest of the world, Africa right now is far more harmful to the atmosphere than all of the United States. Major source of fuel: Wood. Sometimes the smoke can be seen from space. So the question is are we gonna focus on a small corner of our country, our country, or the world as a whole? I agree something needs to be done, but I disagree as to the power we think we possess over the Earth. The only reason I brought up the Tsunami is to illustrate that point. Like I said, human beings are a speck of bird crap on the timeline of Earth.

Professor

#23

Interesting ideas all, but we should likely get away from the idea that humans are the bane of the natural world. Yes, we sometimes destroy mountains, forests, lakes, in our quest to have the type of life we desire, but our contribution to destruction is incidental to that which happens naturally. Several years ago a storm in the Minnesota’s north woods produced a straight-line wind gust that blew down trees in nearly 500,000 acres. More recently, a Tsunami changed several coastlines. And in 1980, as I stood on a ridge on Mount Rainier, I was one of the fortunate to see how nature destroys a mountain as Mt. St. Helens exploded. Several years later a fire ran itself out in and around Yellowstone that left 1.2 million acres scorched, including 36 percent of the Yellowstone Park forests. So what’s my point? All of the above areas are coming back, and that’s in a very short time. Mt. St. Helens wasn’t destroyed, just changed. The Yellowstone ecosystem wasn’t destroyed, but invigorated. The coastlines of the tsunami-effected areas are different, but that’s only from our limited generational perspective. Yes, the destruction of habitat for coal, or oil, or hydroelectric power (hike to Hetch-Hetchy sometime) is a shame. And I agree that mountain top mining leaves an ugly scar, but that scar will heal, and while it does, rather than bemoan and accused those who allow us to live the lives we choose to live (Having been to the third world, I’d rather live where I do now) we would be better served by continuing to look for alternative sources for the future. The mountains may not heal in our lifetime, but our lifetime is incidental to that of the average rock.

Po Campo

#24

Having lived in the central appalachians most of my life I know what it is like to live with mining. How many of you who are posting threads have lived or experienced mining first hand? I grew up in the George’s Creek Wateshed in Western MD. This is one of the most heavily mined watersheds in the central appalachians. Deep mines, surface mines we go it all. The towns located in this watershed are all old mining towns and many families still today depend on mining companies for jobs and income. In fact many of my friends work, or have worked in these mines. Yes it is true that the very electricity that I am currently using to post this is coming from coal, and yes I know where that electricity is coming from. In fact I know the very mine which is producing most of the coal for the Warrior Run Power plant. Although I depend on coal and many famalies I know depend on the mines, I also know that there is only so much coal in the George’s Creek Watershed and when it becomes unprofitable to mine the coal seems,the mining companies will pull out and go elsewhere leaving behind ugly scars and many unemployed people and a huge environmental mess that will take thousands of years to mend.

For those of you who say the earth will heal itself, well sure it will and I agree, but have you ever seen the process of surface mining from start to finish? For your sake I hope you have not. The devastation that occurs just to expose the coal seem is almost unimaginable. The environmental impacts are just as devastating. Hundreds of years of Acid Mine Drainage, hydrograph alterations, loss of forest, loss of habitat are just a few. Many of the streams in the George’s Creek Watershed have a pH lower than 4 as a result of mining. The GC watershed has experience three 500 year flood events in the past 10 years where adjacent watersheds have not. I am currently doing my master’s thesis on the impacts of surface mining on storm runoff and have seen first hand how mining changes a watershed.

So what should we do? I think in order to become less dependent upon coal and natural resources we need a paradigm shift. We need to focus more on how we live. Heating with wood, walking or biking to work, living w/o the TV, and becoming less dependent upon our electrical appliances. Couple this with new a variety of alternative energy sources, such as wind, solar and we significantly reduce our dependence on coal. And for those jobs lost from coal mining, they will be lost in a few years anyways when it becomes unprofitable to mine the remaining coal. In fact many of these workers are now finding work helping in the watershed restoration business undoing what they have done.

In the meantime, I think it is a great thing to get out and protest mt top removal. Better yet, get out there and join your local watershed group. The George’s Creek Watershed Association (of which I am a member) has worked with the Maryland Bureau of Mines, and many local mining companies to remediate the effects of coal mining on streams within the watershed. In fact since 1996, the GCWA has partnered with many agencies and has spent well over 2 million dollars on lime dosers, stream bank stablization projects, leach beds, coal refuse pile removal and several other projects to help improve the overall health of a watershed impacted by over 175 years of mining.

“It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it is still there.” Edward Abbey

Peace to all
jym beam

jym beam

#25

An educated opinion! Very refreshing.

Thanks Jym.

toes

#26

Wood is far harsher on the environment that anthracite coal. Contributes to far worse acid rain. As stated, this is the problem that Africa suffers from. We need to, and can develop solar power to an effective level. However, we need to switch people’s thinking, and that is where the difficulty comes in. I do believe it is on the horizon however, we shall see what the future holds.

Professor

#27

Good news about the Bush Puppet’s most recent defeat. His coal mining masters must be upset:

CLEAR SKIES ACT DEFEATED IN SENATE COMMITTEE

On March 9, the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee (EPW) defeated S. 131, the Clear Skies Act, legislation based on the President’s air pollution plan that repeals or weakens vital protections in the Clean Air Act, delays pollution reductions needed to meet public health standards, and rolls back key measures to improve air quality in national parks and wilderness areas.

The bill was defeated due to criticism from both committee Democrats and Republicans over provisions that would have repealed and weakened the Clean Air Act, and the vote means that the controversial bill will not move forward in the Senate.

:cheers

Tha Wookie

#28

I heard about this the other day, too. It’s a good piece of news even with the setback from yesterday’s Senate vote on the Arctic Refuge.

It just seems like yesterday that we kept drilling out of the Arctic. :frowning: Why can these wins sometimes feel so hollow and short-lived?

One more reason to keep up the fight, I suppose.

Cap’n

#29

There are other ways to extract like fracking that would afford more jobs but thin the bottom line of investors. And as for renewable yea it is when they kill us all with fracking the next growth from ponds can use the oil produced from our we the people’s bones. Keep up the good work hawk eye. They don’t need to turn the planet into the scene from the matrix when he wakes up. I keep it simple if I believe in reincarnation. With what is being done with the planet at the rate it is happening. Would I first want to be reincarnated and second leave a child here to have children to live without power. Slow it down man listen to the collage smart kids for a change in stead of the greed green machine. The word is conserve. The power going off is a matter of 60 years at this rate. Oil supports the population we have now. The industrial revaluation brought it about. That’s right automation. How many will die this time so that they may live. A lot. Will money be worth a damn when it happens. Maybe you can strip mine that from some tight wads pocket. Who do you think is going to be the first to die hawk eye. It certainly won’t be survivalists. Gold will be the driving force of greed once more. Gold went threw the roof in 2009 because people caught a glimps there’s more of a chance for a camel to pass threw an eye of a needle then they will have to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Maybe they should consider that while there doing everyone a favor signing ther permanent death warrants. Just make sure you own property in warm climates. If you want to be a true American and capitalize. Population control has been established in Russia, china. But not here till its to late. Now call me a dooms dayer. More like a realist ask Michael Rupert. He’s dying poor for spending most of the 80s trying to make a difference and warn people. A book in the Harvard library and he will die poor. Think he has a spot in heaven. China and Russia are sitting on there oil. Buying cheap on the market. While we sell ours high were we can. We position ourselves in Iraq to e owed oil or to take it as well as gold. While they sell us a bill of liberation. We can’t liberate ourselves out of fracking let alone strip mining. Who needs mountains right. They only generate the weather. Business majors should be required to take environmental studies. As well as go threw mental implant that they drop dead at first thought of any buis practice that has to do with undermining us or the envirment. There would not be many left I’m sure. Guess we would have to leave it to common scense

Concusious renasaunce packman1