PCT vs. AT - Pacific Crest Trail

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#21

I was surprised when the Data Book facts reported above were so different from my “personal experience,” so i was interested enough to go through the SoCal PCT water reports, line by line.

Without counting caches, the stretches of water more than 20 miles apart are in 3 places, which is 81 miles out of 703 total miles, or 12% of SoCal. If you count the most common and maintained caches, there is only one stretch over 20 miles, a 25 mile stretch, or 4% of the trail.

The water reports don’t extend beyond SoCal, since that is where water is the biggest concern. But if you figure in Hat Creek Rim (not counting the caches) and a couple of stretches in Oregon, you’re talking about 4% of the PCT includes waterless stretches of 20 miles or more. With caches, it’s less than 1%.

The discrepancy with the Data Book must be due to several sources, both natural and campgrounds, not being listed in the Data Book.

Enjoy the trail.

markv

#22

Six-Toe: I don’t think you will find the resupply any harder on the PCT than the AT. There are plenty of places to resupply - or send maildrops. The one long stretch on the PCT is from Kennedy Meadows heading into the High Sierra. The one ‘town’ that is notorious for a poor & overpriced selection of food is Belden in NoCal. Many hikers simply hitch to Quincy to resupply or send a maildrop to Belden.

As for the anonymous snide remark from ‘Mr. Knowitall’ above: I’m not sure if that remark was directed at me or MarkV. In either case, I think that both of us have tried to balance out the very negative picture that Ginny painted about the PCT. Her description of a waterless, scorching hot, fire burned, clear-cutted, ATV-abused Trail does not sound very appealing! (“The PCT is a much hotter trail than the AT - temps are in the 90’s and 100’s for much of the distance and water sources are frequently 20 or more miles apart into Oregon. Fire has burned a lot of the PCT and so there is no shade in those sections - making a hot day feel much hotter. You share the trail with illegal motorbikes and ATVs and (legal) horses - making for a different kind of experience. You also go through clear cuts and windfarms and under several freeways - the PCT does not work as hard for a ‘wilderness experience’ as the AT does.”)

Contrary to Ginny’s experience: I never saw a dirt bike or ATV on the PCT (while I have seen both on the A.T.), experienced less than a week total of temps in the 100’s on two thru-hikes, found very few areas with water sources greater than 20 miles apart (can only think of 3 off the top of my head) & found the PCT to be much more of a ‘wilderness’ experience (relatively speaking) than the AT.

Ginny - I honestly hope you have a better experience on your next PCT hike.

Happy Trails!

freebird

#23

thanks everyone for the food for thought. i am tempted to do fewer food drops on this trip since frankly i have no idea what is going to sound good to eat 2 months or more ahead of time. the occasional stretch of waterless stretches isn’t a huge stress for me since i seem to ALWAYS carry too much anyway (i carried around 5 liters often on the AT, overkill!)

quick question… i’m thinking of using a henry shires tarp tent on this trip, but i don’t have any experience with them. has anyone had any experience with them, particularly their performance in high winds? thanks again all!

Six-Toe

#24

I used a Tarptent (Virga 2) on my PCT hike in '05. Shires Tarptents are great - light, compact, roomy, etc. The one weakness with the model I used was using it in high winds.

Most of the Tarptents are not built as 4 season or winter mountaineering tents (although there are a couple new models made for use above treeline). So I just make sure to find a protected area to tent.

I only got caught once in an unprotected area - at Whitewater Creek during a stormy night. The Tarptent survived that night, but I didn’t sleep very much. I have found through experience that I would much prefer to sleep in a protected area even if I have a tent that can withstand high winds.

If you email Henry, he can give you advice on which Tarptent to buy. Also, his warranty policy is great - he replaced my tent when the zipper blew out (which was not at all his fault).

Overall: two thumbs up from me.

freebird

#25

I used a Contrail from Mexico until Snoqualmie in Washington. Starting northern Oregon with more rain and higher humidity, i was getting sick of the drip that you’ll get with pretty much any enclosed single-wall system like a tarptent, so it was worth it to me to carry an extra 1lb. or so by switching to an MSR Hubba for the last 300 miles or so. Others just used a cloth to wipe down the walls of their tarptents, and were fine with it.

But definitely in lower humidity areas like the desert and the Sierra the Shires tarptents work well. I had mine up in some fairly extreme winds, and i used some extra strings to guy it down. That did the trick. Took some futzing to get used to the setup, especially in winds, but i got it eventually. One key is to really set them up TIGHT. The fabric stretches naturally, so it can take it. And if you don’t, they will sag overnight.

markv

#26

On the PCT a 20 mile distance between water sources is really just a day hike.

Many of those long stretches are broken up by water caches, and while they say not to depend on them (and really, you can get by without depending on them), I can’t recall any of the caches being empty when I went by. In fact, I was annoyed sometimes there were so many bottles along the way.

There is a 35 mile stretch that is bound on both ends by large caches. Even if those caches had not been there, the reality was that there was a water source in the middle of that stretch. It would have required a 2 mile detour (or a reroute, which is what I had planned for myself if the first cache had not been there.) Often this is the case with the long stretches. The long stretches have places to get water but they require a significant detour from the trail. In other words, you aren’t going to die. There is water. It just isn’t convenient.

I do have to admit that by Kennedy Meadows drinking from cattle troughs was starting to get from me. But the positive that I got from the experience is a reverent feeling of gratitude for water and the life it provides.

It can get quite hot in some places, but it’s a dry heat so quite bearable. Hottest day I experienced was along Deep Creek. Around 103. But there was water every so often and I would soak my shirt and hat and was fine. The hot days you will experience in So Cal are always cooled off each evening. It’s really not that bad.

In northern California I experienced a lot of hot days with hot nights, too. Thank goodness for trees to provide shade.

As for wilderness, you will see some of the world’s most beautiful and famous wilderness places. The mountains are BIG and stunning. With the burn zones, you’ll be witness to the cycle of life. Fire is part of nature, especially out west. The chaparral, which most people disparagingly call the desert, is a biotic community rich with life. You’ll see more wildlife in So Cal than you expect. Wildflowers in the desert inspire rapturous feelings of springtime, too.

Enjoy your hike!

Piper

#27

I’ll chime in a bit on the distances between water, specifically the mention of Oregon.

By the time you get there, doing 15 miles by lunch will be no big deal. So the next water is 15 miles away. So what? That’s only 4 to 5 hours. Chug a liter when you leave camp, carry a couple more and you’ll make it fine.

Even the 35 mile stretch mentioned - there’s a natural source at 28 miles in, and great springs at either end of the 35. Leave the first one fully hydrated and simply cruise the 28. Ditch the pack on the trail, hoof it down the hill to the source with the water containers and you’re set.

Piper nails it on the wilderness. There are so many sections on the PCT where there are very long stretches between road crossings. There’s the 175 miles from KM to VVR (and one can extend that the extra miles up to Red’s Meadow for that matter) and 100 miles from Stevens Pass to Stehekin, to name a couple I can think of off the top of my head. The Sierra and Cascades are simply grand (not to put down the other great places - Marbles, for example). Glacier carved valleys…trees so large it boggles the mind… vistas of snow capped wildness (yes, wild) that extend as far as the eye can see (from the top of Whitney, looking north, for example), mountains that have huge relief from the surrounding terrain - Rainier, Shasta, the Sisters, Hood, Adams, Jefferson to name a few.

And going to the OP questions: Typically the resupply points average 4 to 5 days apart. Buy as you go is easy, especially if you don’t have special needs (vegan, for example). Mail from the trail to the few difficult places to resupply from is cake. Tarptents are great. My 2003 virga held up fine on the trail. Some of the newer models look really good - I may have to get one for my next thru. 4 1/2 months is quite doable - 1st of May to mid September, even with 18 zeros.

Token Civilian