Alcohol stove question

imported
#1

A friend of mine just sent me an extra pepsi can alcohol stove he made so I decided to try it out and possibly use it instead of my Esbit on my upcoming hike. The alcohol stove formed a massive flame about 8 inches and that seemed a bit intense … especially if I had to cook inside my tent in the event of rain. In my test, I was worried the flame would melt the plastic coating on my Evernew pot handles as they licked the side of the pot. My question is can I lower this flame by adding more holes to the stove or is this just one of the characteristics of an alcohol stove? The big flame was coming out the center and not out of the holes in the sides … those were ok.

I also have a MSR Pocket rocket but decided to leave that home because it seems like it would be a hassel trying to figure out how full the fuel canister was and when to purchase an extra canister when one gets low. Any tips on this subject would be appreciated.

Jim Quinlan

#2

What type of alcohol? Isopropyl takes longer than methynol or denatured in vaporizing and coming out the ports. It’s also sootier than denatured and methynol. Try denatured; if problem persists continue:

Dissassemble the one you have. First gently squeze the double walls to make sure there is space imbetween, next, pull the top half of the stove from the bottom (hopefully he did not seal the two together- if he did so with exhast tape, first peal the tape off, if he sealed it with epoxy of some sort, skip dissassembly and move to making one from scratch. Note, sealing the two halves is really unneccessary if the stove is built right. Pull the top from bottom carefully by gripping the bottom and plucking the top rim. The inner wall should fall out once the two halves are apart. check to see that there are at least 3 notches in the bottom of the inner wall. They should be about 4 mm across by 4 mm up. These notches allow alcohol to leak into the inner wall. If not there, make them. Now, examine the rim of the top half, examine the ports (holes for the flames to shoot out) should be able to stick a number 9 needle through at least. And hopefully there are more than 15. 30 is good. The ports shold be halfway in from the center hole and the outter wall along the rim. Once all these things check out, carefully put the stove back together.

I’d also suggest building your own stove so you know it’s made right. (Also, what’s said above can be aided with the pics) Great illustrated instructions are available here: http://wings.interfree.it It takes about 15-30 minutes to make your own. Don’t forget to peruse other designs like the cat stove etc… Finally, one of my favorite stoves, the V8 stove can be built following the instructions located at the workshop at thru-hiker.com

Sweeper

#3

Jim - I’d also add that cooking INSIDE your tent is a VERY bad idea. Tents are extremely flammable. You run a strong risk of turning both your tent and yourself into a flaming blowtorch. Second, cooking inside your tent puts food odors inside and on your tent, sleeping bag, clothes, etc. This could attract the critters and might cause you an encounter you really don’t want. Third, I’ve heard cooking inside the tent can also pull all the O2 out of the tent an cause asphyxia All in all, cooking inside your tent is not something you want to do.

Moose

#4

To see how much fuel is left, float the butane/propane canister in water. The water height on the side of the canister matches the quantity of fuel remaining.

If you want to boil water, AL stoves are fine. If you actually want to cook, (slow 20 min simmer), stick with the Pocket Rocket. IMHO, I don’t know why there is such excitement about AL Stoves. Esbit is much, much more convenient than any liquid fuel stove. It too boils water just fine, especially in Spring-Summer AT hiking.

Good luck and hike on.
Tim

Tim from PA

#5

Thanks everyone for the tips. I was using denatured alcohol in the stove. I’ll take some time and experiment with building some of the different designs out there (v8, etc).

Moose, On the cooking in the tent comment I made, I don’t plan on doing that unless I’m camping in an area without a shelter and it’s raining hard … then I guess there’s not much choice unless you have crunchy noodles for dinner :slight_smile: My CD Clip flashlight tent has a nice vestibule I can open for ventilation and put the stove directly on the ground, not the tent floor. I tried my ESBIT in it in a storm once and it seemed pretty safe from a fire standpoint.

Jim Quinlan

#6

Speaking of flames in a tent; just got back from the Smokys and doing Clingmans again. The scout troop I went with, the scout master, would you believe, used a propane heater IN the tent all night. One of those small enclosed ones. Fortunatley they were still alive if not from CO poisoning or lighting the tent. Good grief. Although one kid barfed all day and looked white. Said it was from the tato chips, I think it was getting gassed.
Jim, when we used butane it was easy to tell how much was left by breathing on the side when it had run a minute or so. When the fuel vaporizes in the can it gets cold and a condensation line appears. We get about 20 days on a small can with two hot meals a day between two people. Other folks with us got two months or more. Howdy got from Springer to middle Virginia! Presoaking food helps with shorter burn times. And you got it right, in the vegitable so you can kick the stove out if it flares up. I think if you had to cook in the tent say on Everast they use one of the hanging stove setups so it can’t get near anything but it’s still not safe. Nylon tents burn faster than you can run.

Bushwhack

#7

I used a pepsi can stove with my Evernew 1.3L Tianium pot for my entire 2001 thruhike. I found it worked best when I lowered the pot to approximately 1 inch above the lip of the stove. At this height, the flames would spread out over the bottom but not climb up the sides. The handles on my stove never melted, though they did take a bit of heat a few times.

Mark Rebuck

#8

If you can, tell me the brand and size of canister. I presume you are refering to the 225 gram ones. I use the Primus 225 gram model and I dont think I can get 20 days worth out of mine. Thanks

Jim Deane, Rebel with a Cause !!

Jim Deane

#9

If you have a small diameter pot, you can set the pot directly on the top of the pepsi stove once the alcohol vaporizes and it can also serve as pot stand. (the ports will still fire even though the main hole is obstructed. Additionally, that will control the flame. This is what I did on the LT. That’s how the V8 works. If you’re using a 2 L pot or bigger, forget about building the v8 stove.

Sweeper

#10

Not to fire up a big debate, but alcohol is significantly cheaper than esbits and trioxane per-BTU, also more versatile: you can build a pressurized alcohol pepsi stove that will work fantastic in the cold (I used one in the late winter/early spring of my thru-hike). Also, alcohol is more readilly available on the trail than esbits are. Esbits, however, are hands down lighter than denatured by several oz. when we analyze a weeks worth of fuel load. Alcohol is MUCH cheaper than cannisters much simpler and fool-proof. And I would venture to say the majority of backpackers really have simple cooking needs. After several hundred miles, you get it down to a science: after a thousand miles, I did not want to bother with simmering and complex meals, I just was hungry, me want dinner now… Alcohol stoves are a quality choice… But you don’t need to take my word for it (reading rainbow)

Sweeper

#11

Jim, We have an MSR Superfly which fits all brands of cans. I used MSRs smaller cans since that was all we found. Our usual plan was toasting some Pop-Tarts in the AM and first thing in camp at night was add water to dinner and let it rehydrated while setting up the tent. That left a very small time to cook to desired mushiness. We do like fresh dinners, fajitas w/cheeze, beans, peppers and onions. I have a little stainless grill that fits onto the diffuser for my Outback Oven so I can do burgers, grilled cheeze or what ever the first night out of town. I don’t think I ever fire the stove up to full power. We have a 1.3L Evernew Titanium also and they tend to burn if you heat to fast. The lid is just a round of 16guage aluminum. Makes a nice toaster.

Bushwhack

#12

Jom, if you decide to cook in the vestibule, I have one suggestion. Lite the stove outside of the vestibule. Once it’s running, move it back inside. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve seen people light a stove and shoot flame straight up in the air a foot or so. Even in the vestibule that’s enough to catch your tent on fire. Bushwack is right… nylon tents burn faster than you can run or move.

Moose

#13

Yeah, what you said, Moose. When will someone come up with a 1/2 pound portable 1kw generator that runs on nukes or solar. I need a hot shower at the end of the trail. And my wife wants her vibrating foot massager and electric blanket.:>)

Bushwhack

#14

Alcohol is so durn cheap and available. It doesn’t quite
have the quality of flame as other options, but this really
doesn’t affect much. I suppose getting the water boiling
takes an extra few minutes. Well worth the trade off for
me.

As for cooking in a tent. OMG that is very very stupid no
matter how you slice it. Under no circumstances should
you try that trick. Sheesh.

David

#15

I couldn’t resist, sorry.

“To alcohol, the solution to and cause of all of life’s problems.” -Homer

Grimace

#16

I just got back from a four day trip thru the first half of the Smokies. I used my Trangia West Wind alcohol stove. It performed extremely well. I do suggest getting a wind screen if you use an alcohol stove. I brought 8 ounces of alcohol and I only used 3 1/2 ounces the whole time. That was without a wind screen too. If I would have brought my windscreen I would have only used about 2 1/2 to 3 ounces. I made 3 meals. So it worked out pretty well.

By the way. I have made a ton of pepsi can stoves and have mastered the stove part. What do you guys do for stands? Post links to pictures and so forth.

Thanks,
James Deane (Lil Rebel)

James Deane

#17

James, Here’s a link to how to build a stand for the alcohol stove. I made a few and tried them out and they seemed to work pretty well and double as a windscreen.

http://www.fulton-net.com/~sgraber/makepotstand.htm

Jim Quinlan

#18

Well, lil Rebel said what I was gonna’ about the Trangia Westwind. When I got mine I immediatly got out of the pepsi can stove business. I’ve built a bunch of them too, but never figured out the trick of being able to keep unburned fuel in the stove burner, how to make a Pepsi can stove simmer effectively without doing a bunch of pot jockeying, or how to make as efficient a burner as the Trangia. Once I perfected my windscreen (mine turns the Trangia into a mini blow torch with only about a two inch flame unless I close off the burner a bunch) I have no trouble heating, simmering,or cooking in any weather that I go in as effectively or as quickly as my MSR Shaker Jet or my Dragonfly (or my electric stove at home for that matter). Even though it is a few ounces heavier than a Pepsi can stove I feel that the design features I mentioned and its rock solid reliability makes it a worthy choice in the long run.

Just another opinion of an alcohol convert.

Hacksaw

Hacksaw

#19

I agree Hacksaw! I lLOVE my Trangia Westwind. Watched lots of folks make or use pepsi can stoves. Some worked great, some worked OK, some were lousy. Most were always trying to figure out pot stands, windscreens etc. In the mean time, I’d setup the stand, pour alcohol into my stove, setup the windscreen and be cooking in no time. Can’t tell you how many times the pepsi can users borrow my pot stand. Sure the pepsi can stove is free. However, the trangia has a great stand, you don’t have to worry about having to much fuel in the stove because you just screw the top back on, and it works much better than almost all the homemade stoves. Only two drawbacks I’ve seen with the Trangia. I tend to screw the top on when it’s still warm. Later when you want to screw the top off, everythings cooled off and the top is on REAL tight!!! Second, they are hard to fine. I’ve never understood why more outfitters don’t carry them. I watched them FLY out of the outfitters in Hot Springs. IMHO, spend the $20+ dollars on a trangia and save yourself the time and hassle of the pepsi stove.

Moose

#20

I love my as well. I started with my beloved 447 oh I mean my dragonfly. I found I was only cooking dinner and by Rainbow Springs sent it home. I tried making a pepsi can stove followed all the directions… it was lousy. So I bought a Hike ’ Lite. It was messy and took extra fuel to prime. Someone made me a pepsi can stove. Someday it was great, other days it wasn’t. Last thing I wanted to do at the end of a long day was mess around with my stove. In Damascus I got the Trangia. I loved it. Not another problem. – I must say some used the soda can stove the whole hike and had no troubles… Sue/HH

HammockHanger