Another "bear canister or not" topic

imported
#1

Anyone care to weigh in on food storage for the Sierra? I’m a little undecided here- Very very few hikers I’ve talked to personally or read in Yogi’s book carried any sort of canister, but Yogi herself strongly reccomended carrying one. I also noticed Mr. ultralight himself Andrew Skurka carried a canister on his CA hike recently. Are more hikers using cannisters these days?

My thoughts are as follows: One, I’m on a tight budget and I really don’t want to spend that much money on a new canister or rental costs for only a couple hundred miles of trail. Two, since I’m planning on hiking straight thru to VVR I’ll never be able to fit 8 days of food in one, so for awhile I’d be carrying some food outside of the cannister anyway. Three, weight.

For now, I’m planning on doing what I normally do- Use my normal food bag (OR seam sealed stuff sack) with an added Watchful Eye odor proof liner and sleeping with my food at night, away from water sources and popular campsites, and preparing dinner well before stopping to camp. Pretty much by-the-book. Are the bears really getting that bad or aggressive that this would be inadequate/unsafe? Your $0.02?

sock

#2

Most hikers in 2006 carried canisters. The bears are indeed very agressive and good at getting food. I think in 2005, a PCTer was swiped in the face because she was sleeping with her food. Bad idea for the sierra.

union

#3

Here are the current regulations for Sequoia & Kings Canyon Parks, copied directly off the NPS website:

Special Backcountry Restrictions

SEKI-approved bear-resistant food storage containers with the capacity to store all food are required from the Friday of Memorial Day Weekend through October 31 at the following locations:

  • Rae Lakes Loop through Paradise Valley to Woods Creek crossing, through the Rae Lakes Basin and the 60 Lakes Basin into the Charlotte Lake area, and south along the Pacific Crest Trail to Forester Pass. Also included are the Bubbs Creek drainage and associated trails and cross-country areas from Kearsarge Lakes and Center Basin to Cedar Grove, and all other drainages feeding Bubbs Creek east of, and including East Creek. This also extends south to the Kings-Kern Divide. * Dusy Basin which includes all camp areas from Bishop Pass to the junction with the John Muir Trail in LeConte Canyon and all cross-country areas in Dusy Basin and Palisades Basin. * Rock Creek drainage west of Cottonwood and New Army Passes, south of Crabtree Pass, south of Goyot Pass, and north-northwest of the Sequoia National Park boundary and Siberian Pass, including Soldier Lake,Miter Basin, along Rock Creek, and Siberian Outpost. All trail corridors and cross-country routes within the area are included in the restriction.

These regulations apply to all groups. Through hikers along the Pacific Crest Trail and the John Muir Trail with a valid wilderness permit must use portable, park approved, bear-proof food storage containers or camp at sites with food storage lockers and use the lockers. Hanging food (e.g. counterbalancing) in restricted areas is prohibited until snow prevents access to food storage lockers.

According to the last paragraph of the Restrictions, PCT & JMT thru-hikers (with permits ) are allowed to hike without bear canisters as long as they camp @ spots with bear lockers.
Here is an excellent website that details the locations of all bear lockers in the High Sierra:

http://www.climber.org/data/BearBoxes.html#intro

I have traversed the Sierra’s twice on 2 PCT thru-hikes without using a bear canister. In '05, a weekend hiker just north of Forester Pass in the Vidette Meadow area was in fact swipped in the face, but this was not b/c he was sleeping with his food. It was b/c he was trying to chase a bear away from his bear cannister which was very close to his tent.

Use your own best judgement here & happy trails!

freebird

#4

I can’t really speak about weight or cost, since that’s everyone’s own judgement call, but with some careful repackaging of your food you should be able to get all or nearly all of 8 days of food in.

I had a canister for my JMT, but it seems possible to do without. Through Kings Canyon/Sequoia, you can plan all your camping around the bear lockers, or just camp high. (brr) Same goes for Yosemite. The only tricky section is between the National Parks, and that is only 5 days or so. One of those days will be at VVR, and one will be at Red’s Meadow or Mammoth Lakes. The other ~3 days are questionable. If you can bust a big day between McClure Meadow (in Evolution Valley) all the way to near Selden Pass, you are high enough to stealth camp at about 10,500’. From there you could bust another big day to VVR. Between VVR and Red’s/Mammoth, you could camp high enough to be 99% safe near Silver Pass, and then the next day push miles to get to Red’s/Mammoth. That leaves probably the trickiest day: the one between Red’s and Tuolumne Meadows. You’d have to hike early, hard, and long to get high up on Donohue Pass, but if you can do it, then you have another 99% safe stealth area.

So it’s all doable without a canister. You’re just limiting your camp options a ton, and forcing yourself into some big mileage days. But i’d just buy the canister, personally. You’ll probably hike other places (or come back to the Sierra) more times and be able to use it a lot, or if not, resell it.

markv

#5

With re-packaging, you’ll be surprised at how much food you can fit into the canister. I was able to get 8-10 days crammed in, and still found room for toothpaste, etc. The fee to rent is not that much, and I found it worth the peace of mind. I also ran into rangers who asked to see the canister, so they’re definitely on the look out.

On another note, you mentioned being on a tight budget and you’re going to VVR. VVR was expensive. They have a ‘hiker tent’ that you can stay in for free one night and your first drink is free - which all sounds good. But you pay out the nose for everything else. Once you’ve had that first drink, you’ll want more. And you’ll want food (which isn’t very good). A shower. Laundry, etc. The people are super nice, and it is part of the experience, but it wasn’t worth the money to me. I was hiking the JMT, so hadn’t been out for as long as you will be - perhaps you’ll be ready to pay anything for a hot shower by the time you get there. When I return to the JMT, I’ll use Muir Trail Ranch to re-supply instead. None of the amenities, but closer to the trail and cheaper in the long run.

Another note at VVR, much of what you put in the hiker box will be removed and sold in their store. This left a sour taste in my mouth. Just thought I’d be honest about my bias.

Tumblina

#6

I was also debating this because of a tight budget. But decided that although, it’s rare for a bear to attack you, I would like to avoid it completely. Using a bear canister is the best way to go. Sure you would probably be fine by taking all the precautions. But even if a bear gets your food just once, it could become a problem for other hikers, as well as the bear and especially you since you’re sleeping with it. Anyway, that was my thought.

green mountain goat

#7

I don’t mean to sound like a hippie, but PLEASE remember that the reason that we carry bear cans is not just for OUR convenience/inconvenience. It is also because we are attempting to protect our bear population. The more they have access to food, the worse the bear problem is going to get in terms of aggression.

I did the JMT this past summer and we each carried a bear can rented from Yosemite for a whole of $5. You can also rent cans from Wild Ideas, and most of the other canister manufacturers. I EASILY fit in 7 days of food AND my toiletries. It DID require thinking ahead of time about foods that would pack well (Low volume, and high calorie), but we had plenty of delish food and the only food issue we ran into was when part of our resupply was missing between VVR and Kearsarge (we were going much slower than thru-hiker pace).

The 2 pounds for a Bear can seems like a lot when you are also carrying an ice axe and other snow gear. But this is a case where the regulation is not for the hikers, it’s for the wildlife we profess to love. Celebrate the Parks attempt to do something!

P.S. Amazon is now selling a new book- The Black Bear Almanac!

Sharon

#8

Use the bear cans. Practically everyone I met this year did.

I went straight through from KM to VVR this year ('06). No way I could fit the 11 days of food I carried in the can. Would have taken two. That being said, on the ‘one pass a day’ schedule I was on, there was ALWAYS a bear box at camp locations (with the exception of near Muir Pass) that I stayed at. By the time I got there, I had eaten my food down to the point where I could fit everything into the can.

Pony up for the can, it’s money well spent for the peace of mind for you and for protection of the bears. If you can’t afford the extra 50 to 70 bucks on the can…well, I’d suggest your budget is a bit on the tight side. You also should be able to find very lightly used ones available from previous thru hikers (check e-bay, post on PCT-L, etc.) for a reasonable price.

Token Civilian

#9

use it. or a ursack. a bear took my pack while I was sitting with my stuff. I have video! Granted it was in Yosemite where the bears have morphed into super human-food-eating-machines, but she didn’t get my food, but did get into my trash and appeared to LOVE it.

Bears do exist, at my second encounter I had to sleep in a composting toilet at Buck’s Summit to get away from it.

CARRY SOMETHING

She-ra

#10

I hiked the JMT this summer (north to south), in August. I carried a canister. I had a resupply at Muir Trail Ranch, and ended up able to fit all of my food (about 9 days worth) into the canister.

I didn’t have any experiences with bears, but I did hear a lot of stories.

From the camper in the next site near the top of Lyell Canyon: “There were two guys camped here last night, and they were testing the Ursack for Backpacker magazine. A bear came in the night and figured out how to get into the Ursack and got all of the food that was in it.”

From another JMT hiker: “I was camped at 1000 Island Lake, and I was asleep in my tent. At about midnight, I heard all kinds of yelling and pot-banging and commotion at the other end of the lake. Then it was quiet. A few minutes later, there was commotion a little bit closer. This continued as the bear traveled to each of the campsites along the lake, looking for food. The bear eventually made it to my campsite, and I yelled and chased it away.”

From a ranger at a campsite halfway up Forester Pass: “Last year there was someone camped right here, and they stored their food improperly (turns out “improperly” meant “in a bag, on the ground, a few feet from the tent door”). The bear came and started to make off with the food, and the camper opened the tent door. The bear then swiped the camper across the face.”

Good point about the protection of the bears - grizzlies used to be found as far south as New Mexico and California too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Grizzly_map.gif).

Sophie

#11

Personally, I think it depends on when you’ll be in the sierras…

I left kennedy meadows this year on june 1st, which is relatively early. There weren’t any people out there other than the small group I was in. There was LOTS of snow at the elevations that the trail is at in the Sierras… I think that any bears that were out and about would have headed a little lower for patchy snow/better food access. We saw zero bear sign above snowline (though it would disapear quickly if there were any). Another big one: There were NO rangers to issue tickets. And I was carrying freakin 12 days of food… that would require two bear canisters anyways. We didn’t cook where we camped and there was 5 of us. Sure am glad I didn’t carry one.

On the other hand, if you’re gonna be in the Sierras with less snow, more people, and rangers… I would carry one.

Backdraft

#12

Highly unlikely that the bears are still hibernating in June. I’ve found fresh bear tracks in the snow several times while on Spring ski tours in April with LOTS and LOTS of snow still in the ground. Most recently, while skiing from Mammoth to Yosemite last April I saw several prints right off the PCT in Lyell Canyon. There was still 6-10 feet of snow, and we got more snow that day. You might choose another method or protecting your food (as has been suggested above), but definitely plan to do something to protect your food because the bears will be out there and hungry after a long winter’s nap.

Kanga

#13

There are campground bears and there are wild bears. Wild bears usually want nothing to do with you - unless you provide them with irresistable food temptations. The bears north of Forrester Pass have broken the code, patrol the regular campsites and will get your unprotected food.

One bear avoidance method that doesn’t seem to get much attention is stealth dry camping. Camping away from “regular” campsites and away from water by stocking up on extra water at the source prior to your intended camp site. There are thousands of such possible sites along the JMT.

booger

#14

Did someone say “OUR bear population”? I must have missed the meeting when bears were remanded to our custody. I wonder if I have my very own bear out there wandering around the woods somewhere. If so, I should probably go find him and get busy “protecting” him.

I will start by killing off all his brothers and sisters for fur or because they eat my cows and sheep. Then, I’ll begin building around the edges of his environment, encroaching further into his space every year and limiting his natural food supply. After that, just for fun, I will parade right through the middle of this area carrying a big backpack full of delicious food. Of course I will bring no protection because I don’t want to have to fight the bear. After all, I am a civilized human being and I don’t like violence. I am entitled to travel freely and peacefuly and wild animals shold respect that. These bears need to learn some manners, that’s their problem. If a bear so much as looks at my food the wrong way then he is a “problem bear” with “agression” and if he doesn’t straighten up and fly right I will be forced to haul him off and shoot him, for his own protection of course. But I really don’t want to shoot any more bears than I have to. It’s messy and doesn’t jive well with my bear-benefactor image. Instead I will house my food inside of a plastic container so that the bears may have the distinct pleasure of seeing and smelling food, without the hassle of eating it. Hey, I’m only one man, but I do what I can. Bears sure are lucky to have a friend like me.

Takes off hat and pukes in it

Erik