Bags - Appalachian Trail

imported
#1

I would like some oppinions of down verses synthetic bags. Also, suggestions or oppinions on what bag to buy. Thanks

Lonesome Polecat

#2

Down bags seem to be warmer, they’re lighter, and the only problem you will have with a down bag is if they get wet. It’s very easy to keep your bag dry on the trail (plastic bags).

Synthetic bags can be washed in town.

Regardless of the brand, most down bags perform the same.

I’m not sure about the synthetic bags, though.

bearbait

#3

North Face have a synthetic bag with a difference…they use a new fill called Polarloft (at least i think thats what it’s called). This new stuff now rivals down for warmth to weight ratio. I bought the “Cats Meow” bag which is 20 degree (all you should need on the A.T) and have used it on several hikes with great results. I’ve always liked down bags but the last post was right, when they get wet…they get wet. The polarloft keeps you toasty and they dry alot better. If you want a little extra warmth on those frosty nights, add a silk liner. This adds a few extra degrees and also…wait for it…keeps your bag from smelling to bad (which is always a bonus). 8)

Ross - London,England

#4

The modern synthetics have come a long way. The weight differential between down and synthetics is closing. In fact, it’s really mimimal for 20 degrees and up. And a 20 degree bag us all that you should need, unless you plan to do winter camping.

Down bags will compress more than synthetics.

And despite all attempts to the contrary, things do get wet. If from nothing else than having a wet mist blow in on you at night in a shelter.

I use a synthetic for most of my hiking and have a down bag that I use for cold weather.

Peaks

#5

There are many synthetic materials and many grades of down.

The most common synthetics seem to be variations on “PolarGuard”, where the varieties have names like “3D” and “Delta”.

Down is generally rated by “fill power”. 600 is lower grade, 800 is high grade, 800+ is extremely high (and therefore expensive).

When manufacturers say that a synthetic is “as good as down”, they’re typically comparing their synthetic to LOW QUALITY down. At the high end, down still kicks butt, so far as I know. (I haven’t heard of Polarloft, which Ross mentions, so my information may be out of date. Eventually, I assume, synthetics will match down.)

Let’s compare a couple good sleeping bags to see the difference:

Cat’s Meow (20 degree, Polarguard Delta): 2 lbs 12 oz, $175

Marmot Helium (15 degree, 900-fill down): 1 lbs 13 oz, approx. $350

As you can see, top-quality down is MUCH lighter than top-quality synthetic, but is also MUCH more expensive.

I personally have never had trouble keeping a down bag dry. All gones ones come with highly water-resistant shell material. Presumably you’ll have it inside a couple waterproof layers during the day and be using some sort of tent, tarp, or other shelter to keep the rain off at night. So I’m not sure how a down bag could get really soaked, except under extreme circumstances, e.g. your tent shreds in high wind. If your bag just gets damp over the course of a few days, you can pop it in a dryer in town for a little while (VERY CAREFULLY).

Anyway, the key question, to my mind, is “Do you want to pay $175 to save 1 pound?” And the answer, to my mind, is “Only if you’ve shaved off every OTHER pounds first.” By switching to down, you end up paying > $10/oz of decreased packweight. That’s a pretty low return on investment! So only get down if you’ve already got a shelter < 2 lbs, pack < 2 lbs, etc. Because dropping weight in those other categories can actually SAVE you a lot of money, but dropping weight in sleeping bag costs a truckload of $$$.

Eric

#6

Eric, I’m going to double check and investigate the contents of my last post. I think i’m right about the new fill??? I’ll let ya know.

Ross - London,England

#7

Down is the only way to go… in my opinion. Ive used many synthetic bags over the years… tnf sd… etc. Over the long run the synthetic breaks down quickly and compromises warmth. Also the quality of warmth is much different with down/syn. Down is more breathable and doesnt promote over-heating at night. Synthetic is quite the opposite. It does come down to how much youre willing to spend on a bag. If you need to save the money then get synthetic… if you want something that will last a lifetime, is light and highly compressable then get down.

Also… the ‘wet’ issue is usually what people who dont own down bags enjoy discussing. I was so caught up in this belief that you had to be so careful with a down bag I was tempted not to ever make the switch. Most down bags that are made well do have a highly water-resistant coating on the shell. I poured a liter of water onto the top of my Moonstone bag … then came back 30 minutes later only to find the water pooled up ontop of my bag never soaking through to the down. I simply brushed it away and climbed inside, it was very dry and very warm. I dont see how your down bag would get wet while hiking the AT unless A. you sleep w/o a shelter B. its some freakish once in a million storm that has windblown rain for hours and hours on end where the entire shelter is soaked or C. you wash it.

GURU

#8

We froze our butts off in the Smokies in synthetic 20* wanna-be bags on our thru hike. After the trip, we bought some 0* Mountain Hardware Universe down bags and they are awesome! Much more lightweight than our other bags. They have the conduit waterproof/breathable coating. We’ve poured water on them, gotten misted on and the bags stayed dry. I wish we’d gotten them before the trip instead of trying to use gear we thought would work. Trying to be frugal I guess. I would have rather been warm than frugal!

Bramble

#9

Definately recommend down on the AT. Should be no reason why the bag gets wet. Just keep it in a stuff sack and wrap in garbage bags.
I used a western mountaineer 20 degree ultrlite. It was by far my most expernsive piece of gear at 290 dollars. My parents and I thought it was a bit ridiculous as far as the cost, but it was WORTH it. The bag weighs less than 2 pounds and thats a long too. I’m 6’2. I did use a liner with it cause i started early, but this bag is quality and worth the money. I was gonna skimp at first, but why cut corners? WM has excellent customer service and they use the highest and lightest grade down feathers (880 fill). Fill is important, not just the rating. Many of the mountain hardware, TNF and others were 20 or 0 degree bags but only had a fill of about 500. Feathered Friends is another company you might wanna check out, i’ve heard they make great bags. WM will also custom make bags for you. If your a particularly cold feet person they can add more loft to the bottom etc…

A-Train

#10

Does the down ever get damp from condensation as you breathe at night?

Sleepy

#11

Yeah your bag will get pretty damp at times from condensation. Especially when it was cold I found my bag pretty wet. It tended to be one reason out of many why I preferred to sleep in the shelters.
Luckily with down it will keep you nice and dry and warm even with the wet front from condensation. It usually dried pretty quickly. A few minutes in the direct sun did wonders for it.

A-Train

#12

It seems that quite a few of you never got your bags wet. My Marmot Maverick Synthetic 15 degree bag was soaked quite a bit. Anytime it rained and I was in either a hammock or tent the back got wet. Any tips on how to keep the rain away from the bag if water is leaking into your tent or hammock?

Bankrobber

#13

Any tips on how to keep the rain away from the bag if
water is leaking into your tent or hammock?

At the risk of sounding flippant, “fix your tent or hammock”. But, really, how is the water getting in? You say the “back” gets wet; is water coming up through the floor?

Eric

#14

I want to thank everyone for their response. I am sure it will be helpful making my decision. Thanks again

Lonesome Polecat

#15

The only thing I havn’t heard mentioned is to wear as much of your clothes as possible while in your bag! I used a 35 degree down Sierra Designsthe entire trip, cept for summer when I had a fleece Marmot, and I slept under a tarp and in shelters most of the time and never got wet (except when I slept in a gully!) My point is, you don’t need to get a bag thats too heavy if you have a clothing system that works with your sleep system. Only on 1 night in GA at Tray Mtn Shelter did I wear everything I had, and I was fine. :smokin

Moose Munch

#16

When did you start your hike, Moose?

Bunchberry

#17

I don’t know many from Northbound 2003 that did not get incredibly wet. With my Sierra Design Light Year, Water seeped through the floor and through the area around my feet. The two months of rain from May through June and the first two weeks of August saw constant rain. With my Hennessy Hammock, the tarp would never be able to completely cover me. I blame the company for trying to cut a few ounces by making the tarp offset, but I am not upset. My worst memory is camping in the Mahoosucs a few miles out of Gorham and being drenched. Even if it is dry in the Hammock, it is hard to pack up in the pouring rain without getting the bag a little wet.
Or maybe I am just incompetent when it comes to staying dry…

Bankrobber

#18

You compare the NF Cat’s Meow with the Marmont Helium.

I suspect that most of the weight differential is due to things other than fill. Things like fabric, shell, zipper, etc.

Compare a NF Cat’s Meow with a NF down bag of comparable rating and size. I suspect that the weight differential isn’t much if at all.

The Marmont bag is lighter, not only because it has high quality down fill, but also the material that the rest of the bag is made with.

Peaks

#19

The military has a sleeping bag called the modular sleep system (mss), it consists of three componets, a water-proof gortex cover, a -10 bag and a 30 degree bag, each bag can be used sepratly with the gortex cover or by them selves, or all three combinded for extreme cold. Verry strong, light bag ,verry warm.

woodsman

#20

Compare a NF Cat’s Meow with a NF down bag of comparable
rating and size. I suspect that the weight differential isn’t much if at all.

North Face 20 degree down bags all seem to have 600-fill, so I couldn’t do this experiment. However, according to North Face, the Cat’s Meow bag has:

 1 lbs 10 oz worth of PolarGuard 3D fill.
 1 lbs 2 oz for shell, baffles, zipper, etc.

I couldn’t find stats for the Marmot Helium, but for a comparable bag, the Western Mountaineering UltraLight, here are the numbers:

 14 oz fill
 12 oz for other stuff

These are pretty typical for high-quality down bags. For example, the Nunatak Alpinist is about the same. So it looks like there’s a large savings on fill weight and a smaller, but still substantial, savings on other stuff.

I guess that makes sense.

Eric