Bear Cannisters

imported
#1

Who used a bear cannister on their PCT thru or section hike? Why or why not? Which one did you use and where did you start and finish carrying it? Thanks.

Juan Valdez

#2

Every few months, this topic is HEAVILY debated on PCT-L, and it just finished another round. Go look at the December PCT-L posts, but look specifically at Sly’s posts. He’s a triple-crowner, and he’s got the facts straight on bear cannisters on the PCT. The quick and dirty is that in some areas, they are required if you camp overnight. But not if you’re just hiking through. And Sly’s posted to PCT-L numerous times how getting through the Sierra without a bear canister can be done legally. Sorry, I don’t have the exact locations where one is required. I do know it’s required in Yosemite.

please, please, please, don’t post this question to PCT-L right now. Just look at the archives and get some information first. People on that list get unreasonably bent out of shape over this topic. But, the information is there.

For what it’s worth, I posed this question to several 2002 and 2003 PCT’ers for a section of the PCT Handbook I’m writing. None of the 15 or so people who responded carried a bear canister.

Almost all PCT thru-hikers stealth camp and sleep with their food. We also never cook and sleep at the same location. We cook dinner, then walk 3-5 more miles to camp.

yogi

yogi

#3

Quick correction – in Yosemite, bear cans are only required when camping above 9600’ and in specific problem areas (such as Rancheria Falls, not along the PCT) as long as you properly hang and defend your food. The other potential problem area is in Sequoia/Kings Canyon, which requires bear cans in specific areas, including some areas along the trail. See the link below:
http://www.nps.gov/seki/snrm/wildlife/food_storage.htm

Kanga

#4

There are people who are smart and experienced enough to not worry about bears getting their food. I am not one of those people. I had to frighten a bear away from a buddy’s Ursack in SKC and almost everyone I heard from in Yosemite in August had a “bear event.” No one who had food in a canister lost that food. One guy lost 5-6 days food that wasn’t in his canister when a bear walked past him picked up his pack, got his food sack and ignored his canister. (He had nine more days food in the canister!)

AYCE, a guaranteed life member of the ultralight club, tells a story about a ranger checking for canisters in SKC. He said something about rangers fining people for non-compliance and sending them back to the trailhead. Is this true? I don’t know, as it’s AYCE’s story.

We make choices. To me, it’s convenience and security and that kind of thing versus lighter weight. I’m making that choice many times as I work on my gear list.

Jim Keener

#5

Yogi writes: “Almost all PCT thru-hikers stealth camp and sleep with their food. We also never cook and sleep at the same location. We cook dinner, then walk 3-5 more miles to camp.”

But what if someone else did the same thing and cooked right where you are camping? Or what if someone decides to camp where YOU cooked?

I have asked this question NUMEROUS times in various places, never have yet gotten an answer…

Sasquatch

#6

Just how easy is it to intimidate a grizzly into leaving your food alone?

Ardsgaine

#7

My partners and I left the valley floor in Yosemite the last day of August.When checking into the Ranger Station for our permits,we were asked if we had food Cannisters.If you didn’t have a Cannister,you had to rent one.Basically they told us… No Cannisters, No Permits to hike.My personal opinion is if people want to sleep with their food,that’s fine with me.As long as I’m not set-up in the same area.I prefer to either use a cannister or a ura-sack.

Bill Harris

#8

Yes, it’s possible that someone cooked their dinner earlier in the same evening at the same place where I’m sleeping. There is no way to know if this happened. You have to be smart about choosing your campsite. When assessing a site, think “would I stop here to cook dinner?” If the answer is no, then camp there.

And the “campsite” I sleep at is not an established campsite. It’s simply a place off the trail which is flat. Someplace with no signs of anyone ever camping there before.

Thanks for the correction on Yosemite. I do not know the specifics on the regulations.

I’ve only seen one Ranger in the Sierra. It was in 2002 shortly before Benson Lake, which I think is still in Yosemite. I’m not sure on that. She simply asked what we were doing to protect our food. We told her we were cooking, then walking farther to camp. She was fine with that. She said it was her 4th or 5th year as a Ranger, and in that time had only seen 2 thru-hikers with bear canisters. She also said that the Rangers aren’t as concerned with thru-hikers as they are with other hikers, because thru-hikers are more careful and have more to lose if their food disappears. This is what she told me.

I’m not suggesting that future hikers do not use canisters. I’m simply stating what I’ve seen in the past. If you sleep better at night knowing your food is in a canister, then carry one.

yogi

#9

I just noticed the Grizzly bear post. There aren’t any grizzly bears in the Sierra. Supposedly, there are a few in Washington State.

The bears along the PCT are brown/black bears.

yogi

#10

In 2000 the PCT thruhikers were not required to carry cannisters through the Sierras, while the John Muir Trail hikers were. I think this mostly reflected the difference in season. We were there when the Sierras were still covered with snow, and we saw no bear sign anywhere. One really big problem area has always been Lyall Canyon - lots of very clever bears. On my JMT hike in 1990 the trees were covered with broken lines or broken branches, where the bears had taken out the food bags. A bear knocked down my food bag by having one bear stand on the shoulders of the other bear, but I was able to get to the bag before they did, so I saved it. I didn’t sleep well that night :wink:

There was a ranger just past Tuolemne Meadows in 2000 who was asking all the hikers about their bear bagging. We just told him, “We carry rope.” True - but we didn’t mention that we only used it when we were down low, because we had few fears up in the snowy areas. (He also managed to stop a couple who were bringing a dog illegally through the park. They might have gotten away with it, except the dog got aggressive.

Spirit Walker

#11

Spirit Walker…It’s ironic you should mention Lyall Canyon.
My partner and his wife hiked the JMT several years ago,and set up camp at Lyall.That night a black bear tore down their 3 food bags that they had hung.The bear was dragging the food bags away,and my partner grabbed the rope that was still attached to one of the bags.He got his his flashlight and sat up with the remaining food bag.The bear returned with 2 more black bears.My partner and his wife ran them off with rocks,and making noise.Now that’s agressive and smart bears.Now when we see a bear on the trail,we call him Lyle.

Bill Harris

#12

Don’t talk to me about those things. Carried one on the JMT. If you are experienced, I’d avoid em’ at all costs. We had to walk through Santa Cruz with them under our arms to mail them back. That was bad enough. Imagine carrying it through the Sierra’s!! Especially bad if you’re a golite. Avoid established camp spots, even the Sierra bears are creatures of habit. We only encountered bears once, that was at little yosemite valley. We stealth camped the rest of the way without incident. 2 cents

Ross

Ross

#13

I’m trying to imagine a 125-225 lb human throwing rocks and taking food away from a 300-750 lb bear… Do the bears always back down?

I’m wondering if someone could explain in a little more detail how to deal with a bear that’s trying to steal your food. The bears here in FL are just not as aggressive as what you’re describing, and I think they’re smaller too. From what I’ve read, no human has been killed by a Florida Black Bear. Obviously, that’s not true for other areas, but I’m wondering how many hikers are killed or wounded each year by bear attacks.

Ardsgaine

#14

Ard i think black bears max out at less than 250 pounds if that much.The biggest I ever seen(in WA. olympics)looked a little smaller than a St.bernard.Still scary when you almost walk up on them on the trail.That bear we yelled at and Backed up and gave him room to move away.I also was carrying a walking stick that made me feel a little safer.There are probably less than 250 grizzly(or brown bears)in the lower 48,and consider yourself lucky if you were ever to see one on the PCT.Those things are scary tho’.I have heard that if you are attacked by any bear,(black or brown)punch him in the nose as hard as you can.If you are not being attacked or pursued,give the bear a wide berth and harrass them as safely as you can from as far away as possible.Throw rocks and pinecones and make lots of noise.If this doesnt work I would rather he takes my food than give me some stiches.If you get to close to bears they will often give you a (false?)charge,which will scare you enough that you can hurt yourself running into a tree or over a ledge.Take yogis preventive advice rather than trying to deal with the aftermath.Blacks remind me of big dogs and I wouldnt try to get between a dog and his food even if i didnt think he could kill me. SIDENOTE did everyone see the news about the Mt.lion attack in Orange county?It appears that lion was actually hunting people(mt.bike riders,yogi will appreciate that, ha ha)and feeding on one kill.To me cats are way more scary than any bear,and I have never heard of blacks hunting people for food

newb

#15

There are very few hikers killed or wounded by black bears eack year. A lady hiker was killed by a black bear a year or so in Georgia. A hiker out West was chased and bothered by a bear last year also. Other than that, most bear encounters with Black Bears, are just sightings. Where bears are hunted, the bears are generally more scared of you than you are of them. However in some park areas and some residental popoulated areas, where bears get handouts and are fed by people, then the bears can become real pests. In fact, they expect and demand your food and if they don’t get it, they get mad. They will take it, tear up your tent and packs, etc.

So in bad bear areas, I’d use a bear canister or hang my food. And also in bad bear areas, I would not keep my food in my tent. One thing you can do, is put all you food in a plastic bag, seal it, and put this plastic bag in another plastic bag and seal it. If they can’t smell it, they won’t go after it. And double or triple plastic bagging it will keep the smells in.

Bears are all different just like people are all different. There are bad bears and bad people. Don’t expect all bears to behave alike. They will not. A big mean male bear knows he’s big and bad and mean and some of them are out to prove it----so I wouldn’t mess with them. On the other hand, many bears are scared and will run from you on sight.

Hope this helps. See you out there. :cheers

Maintain

#16

I had heard about the black bear killing the woman in GA. In fact, it was the first thing my dad brought up when I mentioned to him that I wanted to hike the AT. I didn’t know what the statistics were on such things, but I was pretty sure that he should’ve been a lot more concerned about me getting in my van to drive home. Given a choice, I’d rather take my chances with a bear than a cement truck.

Speaking of cats, are there still panthers up in the Appalachians? There’s a very small population of Florida Panthers down here, but I don’t know if any survive up there.

Anyway, thanks for the info guys!

Ardsgaine

#17

Its really hard to say if there are any cats still on the AT i never heard mention of sightings.That doesnt mean there arent any,even where they are for sure ,there rarely seen.I think mayby in NJ pine barrens,or Maine there still could be some.And Vermont is know as the Catamount state.I would consider myself lucky if I even saw footprint.Do you know the average human skull fits perfectly between a cougars jaw?:slight_smile:

Newb

#18

Newb wrote: “Do you know the average human skull fits perfectly between a cougars jaw?”

I did not know that…

I think I would consider myself lucky if I only saw a footprint. :slight_smile:

(Here’s a really good site for information on the Eastern Cougar.)

Ardsgaine

#19

Thanks to the few of you who could answer the question. It sounds like most through hikers do not carry a bear canister on the PCT.

Juan Valdez

#20

About the only cats you will SEE on the AT are BobCats.You’ll hear larger cats at night but hardly ever see them.Here in N.California I’ve seen the crooked tail of mountain lions sticking up in tall grass.This has always been when I’m fishing in the summer,and they come to the creeks to get water.What I wouldn’t want to have an encounter with is a wild(boar) pig,especially with piglets.I saw several piglets in the smokies,so the mammas couldn’t be too far away.
After seeing the movie "Wrong Turn"I’m more concerned with the two legged type.:cheers

Bill Harris