Bikes on the PCT

imported
#21

One option to standing your ground, would be active interaction. Consider a different approach. Some out of the box thinking.

The lonely hiker says, “Wow! Mountain biking! I really wish I could do that. Can I take your picture, I am making duplicates and sending them to people I meet on the Trail. What is your address, so I can mail it to you? Name, address. Care to sign my registry I carry of people I meet?”

Turn photo, date, location, and other important details into local forestry or trail maintainence clubs to identify. Possibly the authorities would be better equipped with your information to handle this with a steep fine and possibly maintain a safer bike free trail. Word of people getting fined will spread rapidly.

i hike along a hiker/biker trail and my experience is, we both give way. Enjoy our own sport and repect each others safety. I have to admit chuckling when I see them wipe out now and then and say things like, “so that is why you do it! kewl!”

I share Jim Keener’s amazement at hikers installing biker traps and would object to anything of that kind of vigiliante “justice” even when a biker is guilty.

Burn

#22

Gabby, I wanted to reply to you directly, but didn’t see an email link. Are you violence-prone? Or do you know violence-prone bikers? Is there somthing about bikers that makes them extraordinarily likely to respond with violence? Have you seen this happen? Participated? What is the basis of your observation?

When I come across a threat, direct or implied, it makes me want to understand it and to fix responsibility for the threat.

Jim

Jim Keener

#23

It seems unproductive and dangerous to appoint yourself the enforcer of the PCT. If I was biking and had someone be that agressive to me, I would simply spray them with pepper spray and proceed to roll them off the trail and go on with my ride.

That being said, if bikes are not allowed, they are not allowed and if you break that rule, you should pay. Perhaps the fines are not high enough. Put the fine up to about 1000.00 and confiscation of the bike and I am sure you will find a lower rate of people breaking the law by riding bikes on the PCT.

Jules

#24

There aren’t bike cops on the trail. Nobody is there to ticket riders. I’ve hiked the PCT 2.5 times and only saw three rangers, and those were in national parks. It seems like the bike riders know that they’re unlikely to get caught, so a fine is not a deterrent.

Most hikers passively step out of the way so the bike riders can pass. I’m not willing to do that. It’s not a bike trail, it’s a hiker/stock trail.

yogi

#25

I think it unlikely that people who confront all they find on a thru-hike would be intimidated by the threats that have been mentioned here. Hope not. Some would say and do nothing. I’m 60 years old and have a lot to learn. I’m not sure what I would do myself. I hope I would stand my ground and not act out of fear. But also that I wouldn’t add threats of my own, nor increase the noise level. I’m not certain of the appropriate response.

But I watched the movie Gandhi again last night. Gandhi said peaceful resistance is not passive. So far, that is my guide. At least you, Joel, said what you, not some imaginary rider, would do.

If my hike is going to be a pilgrimage, I’m going to have to make some changes - some internal ones. This is a most illuminating thread.

How do hikers protect what is important to them without encouraging a violent response in others? I do not know.

Jim

Jim Keener

#26

Jim makes a good point. We’ve got to protect the PCT. I don’t physically attack bike riders or their bikes. I do not raise my voice. But if I cause a bike rider to slow down or stop long enough for me to explain that (a) this is the PCT (b) bikes aren’t allowed on the PCT, then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE next weekend he’ll pick another trail.

yogi

#27

Hi Yogi and all. I’ve read all 2.5 of your trail journals Yogi and loved them. I have hiked the Oregon section of the PCT and I can tell you that it is not true that bikes are not allowed on the “PCT”. When the PCT was layed out it was in many cases just linking existing trails together. In Oregon for instance, many miles were originally part of the existing “Oregon Skyline Trail”. When you thru hike in Oregon you will notice that the PCT trail that your are hiking on actually has a different name. Two examples of what I am writing about are the trail near Charnelton Lake and the trail near Timothy Lake. The trailhead signs near these areas do not have the typical cross bar on the bike icon. I don’t like the idea of Bikes on the “PCT” but if you confront someone on certain parts of the trail you will be in the wrong.

John Andrews

#28

John,

There is one very short section of trail (less than 100 yards) along Timothy lake where bikes and hikers share the trail. It is simply used as a connector to another trail where bikes can ride.

That segment is posted for the bikers to dismount and walk. When we were last there it wasn’t posted at the south end of the lake. However, bikes are restricted from the PCT except for that short segment.

I don’t believe that Charnelton lake has an exception for bikes.

The restriction of bikes from the PCT is part of the National Scenic Trails Act enabled by congress. It can not be overwritten by local forest.

Ron

#29

geez, Ron, you’re quick!!!. In the time it took me to look this up, you’ve got all the facts!!

Ron’s right, there is a HUGE sign along Timothy Lake stating that bikes are not permitted.

I don’t remember seeing any exceptions near Charnelton lake, either. And, like Ron stated, the PCT is protected by the National Scenic Trails Act anyway.

The Oregon-Washington Guidebook lists many alternate routes, some of which follow the old Oregon Skyline Trail. Perhaps bikes are permitted on those sections of trail, which are not the current PCT.

From the PCTA Website:

“The PCT has been designated as a non-mechanized trail by the U.S. Forest Service (the agency responsible for management of the trail). This means the trail is open to foot and horse (or other pack stock) travel only. Bicycles and motorized vehicles are not permitted.”

yogi

yogi

#30

About Timothy Lake:

The sign that states bikes aren’t permitted is HUGE. I would guess it’s the largest non-bike sign on the PCT.

There is that one section near the lake where bikes are allowed. It’s along a stretch of trail where a boardwalk/bridge is used to cross the lake inlet. The bike trail and the PCT merge just before the boardwalk. The sign states that bike riders must dismount along the 100 or so yards until the two trails split again after the boardwalk.

So you can’t ride your bike on the PCT. Whew!

yogi

#31

OK, now we all know that bikes are illegal on the PCT. I never doubted that in the first place. We can all agree that the use laws are good. Or can we? What about horses? As hikers, how do they contribute to our experience? I think this is a much tougher subject, and would like to hear some opinions on horse use on the PCT or other trails. All the research says that horses impact trails and campsites far more greatly than bikes. Bikes don’t defecate all over the trail. Is one use type more compatible with hiking than the other?

Tha Wookie

#32

To give a complete idea of how I think things ought to be, I would have to wander off into the never-neverland of how I think society should be organized, principles of individual rights, property rights, etc. Simply taking the world as it is, and trying to say what principles I think should govern trail use on public land, this is my thinking.

First, I wouldn’t think that the goal would be to adhere to a principle of minimal impact, because the logical conclusion of that is simply to close the trail to everyone.

The more sensible question is to ask what is the trail designed for, and what uses are compatible with that. There is no shortage of trails, so it’s not a question of sharing out a scarce resource. There’s nothing wrong with saying that this trail will be for this, and that trail will be for that. There’s room for everyone, and we don’t have to be on top of one another.

The National Scenic Trails are designed for long-distance, let’s say ‘overland travel’ so as not to prejudice the matter. Obviously, they’re not for cars. Are they for bicycles? No, bicylce touring is done on highways. Governments have started adding special bike lanes to make that easier and safer.

For mountain bikes? No, that’s pretty much a day sport. The idea, as I understand it, is to go very fast downhill, not to travel long distances.

ATVs? No, again that’s a day sport.

Horses? Well, this is a bit trickier. For most people, horseback riding is probably a day sport, but it is possible to do long treks on horseback and/or with a pack animal. I don’t know if anyone has ever done an entire trail that way. It seems like it’s a rather dangerous thing from the perspective of the animals–keeping them fed, watered and healthy, protecting them from predators. Still, week-long horseback treks are probably not that uncommon. In my mind, the jury is out on that one. I don’t know what alternatives exist for long-distance horseback riding, or how much use the scenic trails are to them.

Hikers… obviously, these are the people that the long-distance trails were designed for. Any other use of the trail should be consistent with them actually being able to use the trail. (In other words, they shouldn’t be in danger of being run down by a hurtling mountain bike.)

So I think that the scenic trails ought to be reserved primarily for hiking, but that there may be a place for horses on the trail too–not sure. If people want to tear up the woods on an ATV, or tear up themselves on a mountain bike, there are other places to do it.

Ardsgaine

#33

Ardsgaine makes a good point here. There can be and are seperate trails for differant user groups. Off raod bicycle touring has been growing in popularity over the last ten years or so. This usually done with either panniers or my choice the B.O.B. trailer. I find it just as fun as backpacking but a lot more work. There is the CDT bike route which is I believe a National Scenic Trail. It runs paraell to the CDT Trail from Canada to Mexico. There also The TransAmerica Trail, this is NOT a National Scenic Trail. It is a route that Dual-Sport motorcyclist can travel, stretching from Tennessee to the Oregon coast. The route is made up of public dirt roads, fire roads and parts of the Colorado Trail. Horse backriding looks like fun but when the trail is muddy they sure do tear it up. So there appear to be ways for the differant user groups to enjoy the outdoors without interfering with someone elses outdoor experience. Mt. biking is not just about going down hill fast. The fun part is the pain and suffering one experiences while grinding up a very steep grade.

elnomad

#34

Given a choice between the two I would much rather have mountain bikes on the trail then horses. I don’t believe I have ever stepped in a big steaming pile of Mt Bike crap. I can’t say the same for horses. I do like to have the trail to myself and fellow foot travelers though.

Big B

#35

elNomad, where did you get the info on the Trans America being a motorcross trail. Go to adventurecycling.org and you will get the whole info there along with the Great Divide Mountain Bike trail. Great stuff.

That said, this is my two cents. I see alot of double standered here. First, I do not agree with bikes on the PCT as said it is foot/hoof traffic only. But the violence thing, that needs to go. I thought that was what the “Leave No Trace Communtiy” is all about. I see locals stringing up fish hooks on the AT and hikers are complaining about that, so now the hikers are wanting to do the same to the biker. Well lets use this senerio to see how that will actually work: Hiker sees bike rider on trail so he/she decideds to put out fishhooks, biker stops for a break. Another hiker passes biker and it is the hiker who gets impelled instead of the biker. looks like our “Friendly Hiker” Community is not all that friendly after all. Seems to me the violence has got to stop some where. I say lets educate and not deteriorate.
I do agree with the aboove post on the horse crap. I have gone on trips wehre the trail is multipurpose. Upon arriving at the only campsite in the canyon the smell was forbidding and the horses were allowed to use the tentsite and not the corral that was installed for that purpose. This is a subject tath wil always be debated on. But I do still stand on one thing if the trail is foot traffic only then that is that. But lets leave the violence out. After all this is Gods creation for us all to enjoy.:cheers

Spacewalker

#36

Hiya, Spacewalker. You can find info on the Transamtrail at www.transamtrail.com. It’s a totally differant route from the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail. If you would like any further info on the Transam Trail let me know. I’ve been a subsciber to adventure cyclings news letter for years. Lots of good info on off road bicycle travel. I can’t agree more on ending violence on trails of any kind. My almost losing an eye makes me very enthusiastic for its end.

elnomad

#37

Who has encountered fish-hooks strung across the trail on the AT? Give date and place of occurance. I’ve heard the story before and it just keeps getting passed on year after year as though it occurs every year. It’s always been “I heard that while someone was hiking along east Tennessee, blah, blah, blah.” Never any specifics! Must we keep perpetuating this boogy-hook story.

Phish

#38

Whats up man? Yeah, I have the Adventure Cycling info too. I get there subscription. I like along side of hiking to mountain bike and road bike. It is all fun as long as it gets me out there. I like a lot iof the trails (routes) that adventure cycling has they love the back roads. I am a member of dallas off road biking assocation adn one thing I do is try to educate hikers and bikers of trail ethics. I did not mean to turn this string into a talk of biking. So lets go out and have a great year enjoying the out doors and be safe and do it safe.:cheers

Spacewalker

#39

Sorry Elnomad, I checked out that site. I did not know of a trans america motorcross trail. Now that is scarry.:eek:

Spacewalker