Bikes on the PCT

imported
#1

okay, here it goes. As some of you know, I’m writing a PCT Handbook. In addition to specific trail information, I also have a “tips” section with suggestions from many 2002 and 2003 hikers. Plus some of my own opinions. I want to include this little ditty about bikes on the trail. My friend suggested I leave it out of the book. What do you think?

Bikes don’t belong on the PCT for the same reason that hikers don’t belong on bike trails. It’s not safe for the people on foot. Have you ever been walking along a trail and out of nowhere a bike comes barreling around the bend and almost takes you out? It’s not fun. When I see a bike on the PCT, I stand my ground. I will not move out of the way. The person on the bike has to find some way around me, no matter how steep the terrain is. If the bike person comes up behind me, I simply keep walking. If the bike person is coming toward me, I stop in the middle of the trail. I can stand there all day if necessary. I’ve got a pack full of food. And Canada ain’t goin’ anywhere.

There are signs at EVERY trailhead indicating that bikes are not allowed on the PCT. The people on the bikes know this, but they ALWAYS deny any knowledge that bikes aren’t permitted. When I encounter a person on a bike, I do what Cupcake taught me in 2002. First I ask the bike person if he/she knows they are on the PCT. They always say yes. Then I ask if they know that bikes aren’t allowed on the PCT. They always say no. So I explain that bikes are not allowed. Then they ask me to move out of the way so they and their bike can get around me.

NOPE. I’m not moving. You don’t belong here, so I’m not going out of my way to make this easy for you.

yogi

#2

I had a motor bike almost run me over on the Deep Creek descent. I told the guy the same thing, and he say’s “I’m just passing through”. He really damamgeed that trail with his one use. Later he came BACK. I was pissed in rare form, as I loathe dishonesty almost as I loathe distractions from a good old WALK in nature, when I have the chance to connect to MILLIONS OF YEARS of anscestory and get away from SILLY TOWN CONTRAPTIONS that help people maintain laziness without missing nature (although bikes not AS lazy).

YOGI- I’ve been there, and I agree with you. Speak it from your heart, sister. People get so worried about how others feel, but we know the current apathy doesn’t cut it, don’t we? I’m a mt. biker myself. But I would NEVER take it on a hiking trail, especially a wilderness trail. It’s hard for the rider to imagine how distracting they are, because they are too distracted to realize! I say put it in there. The only changes I suggest are: 1) to always avoid the word always, because it never is 2) no that was it, just 1.

Tha Wookie

#3

As a backpacker I have to agree with Yogi and The Wookie. Bicycles are not allowed on the PCT or the AT for that matter. And should not be there. I to have almost been run down by a cyclist while I was on a backpacking trip. That said, I am also an avid cyclist and firmly believe that their should be trails set aside for mt bikers as well. And there are places were this is done very successfully, such as in the Michigan St. Rec areas. For the long distance cyclist there is the CDT bke route which runs near but not on the CDT hiking trail. I also have the experience of riding on a mt bike only trail and hitting a line with fish hooks strung across the trail by hikers who were standing near by and found it quite amusing. Hope this response does not keep Yogi and The Wookie from wishing me luck on my '04 AT thru hike.

elnomad

#4

I don’t have a problem with people on bikes. I have a problem with people on bikes who are riding their bikes on hiker/stock only trails. On trails which have multiple signs posted which indicate that bikes aren’t allowed.

I’m not a bike rider. But I’d imagine that there are many trails out there for bike riders only. They don’t have to tear up the PCT. I’m sure if I went hiking on a bike-only trail, the bike riders would not like it. I wouldn’t tear up the trail or anything like that, but I’d cause them to have to slow down, or cause them to crash while trying to avoid me, etc. Different uses for different trails helps to avoid conflict with the users.

And it pisses me off that the bike riders call the PCT the Perfect Cycling Trail. I’ve heard that more times than I want to remember.

If I make a PCT bike rider have an un-enjoyable ride on the PCT, maybe next week he’ll choose a different trail to ride on. That’s why I won’t get out of the way for them.

By the way, have a great AT hike! It’s been a while since I’ve been on the AT, so I’m sure there are lots of great places I don’t know about. My favorite place on the AT is Kincora. Don’t miss it!!!

yogi

#5

This is a tough one. As the rule stands of course your posistion is right.And I think if you post this in your most excellent guide book you should state “this is what I do”.I have mixed feelings about people being righteous,even if they are right.That said what would your posistion be if parts of the PCT were open to riders? Would you still be resentful of cyclists?I happen to do both activities and i have seen jerks on and off the saddle.I dont believe there are any absolutes in life I think you have to be flexible and open in most situations to get the best results. As a last note,there is a opinion that Mt.bikes actually do LESS damage to the trail than most hikers,but thats another thread altogether.

newb

#6

First of all, I’m not afraid to post both my name and email address when I state my righteous opinions. How unfortunate that you’re not comfortable enough with your points of view to do the same.

Second, if you would bother to read the original post, you will see that my statements are clearly written from my point of view, with the “this is what I do” type of wording you’re searching for.

Third, the PCT is NOT open to bikes and NEVER WILL BE open to bikes, so that argument holds no weight.

Fourth, I never mentioned the damage that bikes do to the trail. Since you brought it up, I’ll tell you: the damage is substantial. The equestrian and hiking clubs/organizations maintain the PCT. Name ONE biking club that participates in PCT trail maintenance.

Lastly, it WILL BE a most excellent guidebook. If you ever hike the PCT, you’ll want to have one.

yogi

#7

pedal powered bikes or motor bikes? i spose it doesnt really matter… ever see the damage 1000 head of cattle do when they trundle through a pass? its exactly the same as motorbikes.

stock trails these days is a misnomer as nobody droves cattle to market when its cheaper and faster to load em into overland freight…

yogi, id definatly put something in about bikes on the trail, but i think id find a different way to present it than the above paragraph.

Bloody Cactus

#8

I like mountain bikes a lot and hike regularly in areas where mountain bikes were first introduced (Mt. Tamalpais and the Marin Headlands). And I like mountainbiking. But I loathe seeing a bicyclist on a trail where bikes are prohibited.

I hike a lot at night. And one of the favorite things for bikers to do is to hurtle down steep trails without any lights on the bikes. I know it must be fun, but I’ve come close to being in some accidents.

One of the things about rules - is if you break them, you should own it and not lie. And my experience has been like Yogi’s: bikers lie when confronted with the “no bikes here” rule. Let’s see. When do I lie? Never!

My solution is like Yogi’s and others whose journals I’ve read. I stand in the trail, smack dab in the middle of it and say, “I’ve got my food and shelter with me and can wait for a long time. You’ll have to turn around.”

And this is the last flame thread I will participate in. That’s a commitment to myself. But then you needed to know how I think about this, didn’t you?

Jim

Jim Keener

#9

My dog and I hike several different trails here in California.Most of them allow bikes on the trail.I found that the ones that do,the bikers think they are the only ones allowed there.They top out on hills,not knowing or even caring if a hiker is hiking on the other side.You get my vote Yogi.:boy

Bill Harris

#10

I am both an avid hiker and mountain biker, and I absolutely agree that bikes do NOT belong on the PCT or in wilderness areas. Sure most bikes won’t do any more damage to the trails than a hiker would (and considerably less than horses, but I’ll save my thoughts on horses for another day), but that isn’t the point. The point is that a trail like the PCT isn’t designed for multiple uses by bikes, etc.

Yogi, although I might choose to word things differently, I think you should definitely include a paragraph on the bike issue, regardless of who might be offended.

kanga

#11

This is a little off the topic, but I saw it mentioned, so will clear it up. I work for a “recreation ecologist”, and part of my job is keeping up with recent impact literature. I have some research myself on the matter, which is my thesis for grad school that I am working on. Generally, bike and hike impacts are similar in scale when compared to horses, motorbikes, or ATVs. Horses and ATV’s are very similar, by the way. But bikes impact the trail differently than feet. Different soil types, grades of trail, and type of trail construction are major variables in soil loss by bikes. The famous study that said bikes are less impacting than feet did not take all of this into account. There are many other studies that show otherwise, yet most of them did not control for enough variables. So, making a blanket statement that one use is more destructive than the other is not wise. You can say that they are very similar, or that there is no or little significant difference, but it really depends on more than the use type. If a trail is well desgined and customized for a specific use, and maintained, then you will likely not see much environmental impact. But asthetic impacts are a different story, I want to point out. :nerd

Tha Wookie

#12

btw Yogi – I think it is wonderful that you are writing a new PCT Handbook! The info you’ve gathered from your hikes has been helpful to so many.

kanga

#13

I’ve got no problem with your stand on bikes on the PCT, but you should caution your readers about possible confrontations. While you might be confident in your abilities to assess and deal with any potential problems, many other hikers might be better served voicing their displeasure and getting out of the way. As someone who spends about equal time on bike and on foot, I would say that bikers tend to a) travel in packs, and b) be more aggressive than hikers. You should also consider the possible consequences of pissing off a group of riders - are they going to harass or vandalize the backpackers coming behind you? Looking forward to your guide, Joel

Joel

#14

So, not only would these riders ride where they were not supposed to, but they might gang up on a hiker who blocks the trail?

Is this something you’ve seen happen?

Jim Keener

#15

Where we bike bikers gang up on OTHER bikers if you’re in the way. “ON YOUR LEFT!!!” has a whole new meening when it’s 1ms before they either hit you and cause a crash or flip you off. I would belive a hiker would get into trouble by some wild band of cranks. Cranks vs Foots…? West Side Story all over again only without the love. :oh

Bushwhack

#16

This is taking on a whole new tone. People not just doing something where they are not supposed to, but threats of violence. I’ll ask the question again: Is this something you’ve seen? Do you know people who would do this?

It makes me wonder how I would respond. Would I just step aside because I was afraid of violence? Would I act out of anger myself? And I truly do not know. I think the best course would be non-agressive resistance. Standing where I want to stand without the bravado comments I listed before.

Jim

Jim Keener

#17

Harassment? I have 29 yrs. of backpacking and 12 yrs. of mt. biking behind me and the only problem I have ever encountered is thirteen stitches under my left eyebrow from my fellow non agressive hikers stringing a line with fishhooks across a MT. BIKE ONLY trail. And three cases of hikers from a local hiking club vandalizing the vehicles of riders parked at a mt. bike only park. These hikers were later caught. When it comes to violence and agression on the trail my fellow hikers might want to look at our own community before pointing fingers at others. I believe that Yogi should put the fact that cyclist are not allowed on the PCT in her handbook.

elnomad

#18

Good luck with your confrontations with bikers. Someday you just might confront the wrong guy and end up with tire tread marks across your back.

I agree that bikers have no business being on the PCT.

Gabby

#19

Just to clarify yogi,I was not attacking your posistion just stating mine which I thought was what you were looking for.The trouble with text postings is that intonation is nil ,so misunderstandings are common(something you might want to consider when writting your guide)Also i have included my email address and you have mailed me before and hopefully in the future.I was not ashamed of my posistion,just dont always post email when responding,I will now.Wookie thanks for your info on trail degradation by different sources.I wasnt sure of facts thats why i didnt state it that way.Your info was very good in clarifying my point. As i said in first post,YOGI is right about bikes on PCT.what i would do differently is how i confronted the perpatraitor.I would hope PCT is never open to cyclists,but remeber never is a longer time than any of us will ever know.Mayby the hiker community could form cyclist groups and encourage them in trail etiqutte and maintanence.This whole argument reminds me of the skier Vs snowboarder non issue that was fighting over 15 years ago.Kill them with kindness is my motto for changing peoples behavior,confrontation leads to more confrontation in my experience.And however you chose to write your book I will be one of the first people to order one.Feel free to email me anytime,aloha karl

newb

#20

All I have to say is that I am thankful to be able to enjoy both mt. biking and hiking in our natural protected areas. We all have a role in protecting our experience and I for one will make this new year a year of action and application to the truths that have been revealed to me while hiking our National Scenic Trails. Obviously, some people before us had visions to create what we now enjoy. I pledge here to pick up that torch in 2004 and beyond and ensure the gifts that I have enjoyed for those who follow in my steps. We must give back if we want to keep taking.
In the words of the Beatles : All we need is love. I can’t think of a better place to cultivate that truth than a foottrail. All the distractions are gone. We are faced with ourselves, our surroundings, and our future. Happy new year and new life to you all. Peace and god be with you- TW

Who is with me?

Tha Wookie