Cold sleeper - bags?

imported
#1

I’m a COLD sleeper. I slept in a bag (North Face) rated to -18 (celcius) in about -5 celcius weather, and I was very cold all night. Not the coldest I’ve ever been, but cold enough that I couldn’t sleep.

So, I’m looking for other cold sleepers to give me some advice about sleep systems/sleeping bag brands that work for them. I’ve looked at the Western Mountaineering bags, but they are a lot of money (although - worth it to be warm). I’m also thinking about a warm bag plus a silk liner. I’m starting April 2. Any advice about especially warm brands is helpful - I’m heading to Toronto tonight to try and find a warm bag.

Thanks!

nunyet

#2

I also usually sleep super cold. I used a cat’s meow and would be chilled in any weather under 40*. I found what made a gigantic difference was carrying a down vest that I draped over my chest at night. Now I can use the bag down to its normal range (15-20) and remain comfortably warm. Plus the vest is great for around camp.

Thumbkin

#3

North Face is notorious for their "optimistic’ ratings. They also assume you’re in a tent, on a solid foam pad as an insulator (were you? if not, consider adding a foam pad to sheild against the under-cold, where the down is compressed and cannot insulate. The blow-up pads might not be enough to keep you warm.).

I’ve owned a Cat’s Meow too, and while it’s a lovely, tough, cheap bag in its own right, as a cold sleeper I can’t use it on the higher elevations (3K plus) of the AT from Sept-March/April.

I truly, truly LOVE LOVE LOVE the cozy warm snuggness of my Western Mountaineering 700-plus fill down bag. Their ratings are conservative. Mine was rated to 20 degrees, but I’ve slept in it in single digits and been SOOOOOO comfortable (I have it around my shoulders in the house right now). Granted, outside I add a very light fleece neck warmer/ring (my magic piece of camp and cold-sleeping gear), and a hat. REI long johns if neccessary.

Also, though this probably doesn’t apply to Nunyet’s case, just a side note: I make sure to change to a sacrosant, zip-locked dry set of clothes as soon as I make camp. Nothing chills a body faster than trying to dry wet clothes while wearing them.

I’ve noticed the WM bag has since been rated to 10 degrees, so I suppose they figured out it was even better than they thought. Stumpknocker is still out there (in PA) and using the same bag right now in this super-cold weather.
Sub-two pounds, can’t beat it with a stick. WMs are pricey, but there is a reason. These are lifetime bags. I use my at home when the power goes out too.

Damn! The actual model name escapes me, but google in Western Mountaineering Ultralight series, and look at the ratings. Mine is a teal color on top, should be rated about 10 degrees now. I carried this bag all through March and April, and a little of May. It’s COLD above 3K feet!

I also use a vest when hiking in cold weather, but mine is synthetic fill. Doesn’t compress as bad. Have slept in it too. I love gear with multiple functions/versatility, and this is one way to customize and extend bag range with a piece of clothing.

Sometimes, when no one is looking, I’ll wear the vest backward when hiking - it keeps the trunk warm and wind-free, keeps the arms uncovered for heat dissipation, doesn’t overheat the back to make it sweat (and thus chill). You can invent lots of useful, wacky, innovative things when you don’t have people to reflect your wackiness back at you (or, alternatively, not allow the odd looks to penetrate your equanimity - self-possession, an even greater freedom).
:wink:

Jan LiteShoe

#4

A warm sleeping bag is very important but only part of the overall picture in staying warm.

*A good down bag will provide the most warmth per pound if you are experienced enough to keep it dry. Any name brand quality down bag will probaly work just about as well as another with the same temp. rating.
*A good sleeping pad is vital for staying warm. Sleeping pads such as a Therm-a-Rest will keep you comfortable and help insulate you from the cold ground.
*A mummy bag with a hood is a good choice for most people.
*Use a sleeping bag of the right size.
Get a bag that is long enough, but not too long.
Get a bag that is just roomy enough inside. Too much space means extra space to heat. Too little space will squash more insulation and you’ll sleep cooler.
*Use the bag’s hood and draft collar if it’s cold.
*Wear warm, dry clothes in your bag if you’re getting cold. A down vest is a great idea but I’d wear it in your bag for maximum warmth. Wear long underwear and whatever other warm clothes you have available. Loose, layered clothing is warmer. If you have extra clothing you don’t have on, use it for ground padding or to fill up extra space in your bag.
*Absolutely carry and wear a warm balaclava at night. It is the most warmth you can pack per pound.
*Go to sleep well hydrated and well fed and make sure you’ve peed first.
*Sleep out of the wind.
*Sleep in a tent instead of under the stars if it’s cold.

Sleep warm!

Colter

Colter

#5

Not wanting to change the subject totaly but I am thinking about ordereing a WM Ultralight. I am 6’ tall and was wondering if the Reg. or 6’ bag will be long enough or will I have to go to the Long or 6’6" bag ? I don’t want to have to heat up any more room then needed.

Cookie

#6

First, Colter and Jan are both right on the money. Experiment with their advice. If using a thermarest type matress, make sure you do not blow it up by mouth. Let it self-inflate, as moisture from your breath will turn to ice crystals inside. As well you can always take a hotwater bottle to bed with you as long as it 1. does not leak and 2. does not make you sweat. Oh hey, do not put your whole head in the bag either. Same thing about the breath moisture.

Second, Cookie a bigger bag is not necessarily a bad thing. It may weigh a few onces more but being constricted can actually make you cold. The only part of a bag that gets your heat it directly above and below you. Extra room in the foot will stay cold. Having room gives you circulation. All said though I’m 6’ myself and have never needed an extra size bag.

OB

#7

Thanks everyone! I will see what they have at MEC - I was going to go with a WM versalite, but they’re not in stock apparently… I’ll see what I can do in Toronto’s outdoor shops (too bad I don’t live in Vancouver!).

Jan - thank you for your (and others) advice - I’m going to (try to) sell the house, and we’ll see what happens… I keep putting inspirational AT photos as my background on my work computer to nudge me toward that goal. I hear you’re writing (have written?) a book? When’s that come out?

nunyet

#8

or you could add a fleece mummy bag liner instead of silk. They’ll add about 10 degrees to your bag.
All bag companies rate their bags on a pad in a windproof tent, but from everything I’ve always heard, WM has the most conservative ratings.
Dry socks help keep you warm at night, and especially a winter hat, I carry one well past spring.
Also, stay in a tent when it’s cold, not a shelter, your tent will add roughly 10 degrees of warmth.

0101

#9

Nunyet…I’d also recommend Marmot bags. They are less expensive than the WM but are warm bags. I’m also a cold sleeper and found I was ALWAYS warm in my Marmot Sawtooth. I also use a silk liner and found on most nights I had to unzip the bag to ventilate the heat. I can only recall a couple of nights where I was totally zipped up. Had a March 23 start.

Moose

#10

if you look on ebay the outfiter at harpers ferry has a good deal on wm bags and they have free shipping. I got mine quickly that way.

Grassy Ridge

Grassy Ridge

#11

Nunyet, Ditto on the WM bags. They are expensive, but as Jan says it’s an investment that will last for a very long time. I first bought the WM Ultralite (Cookie…go with the longer one) rated at the time for 20 degrees, but it didn’t keep me warm when it was 30 degrees. I have found that the ratings don’t really mean that you will be warm, they just mean that you won’t die. My next purchase, and the bag I started with on 3-15-03 was the WM Puma, rated to 0 degrees. It cost me over $400.00 and weighed almost 3 pounds but I was never cold with that 8" loft hovering over me. I changed to the Ultralite in Damascus and carried it the rest of my hike.

Journey

#12

I started out in January 02 sleeping in my tent (Bibler I tent), but it seemed like a lot of space to heat, so I switched to sleeping in the shelter using the tent as a bivy. Now I’m wondering - why not just take a bivy for winter.

bluevist

#13

Western Mountaineering Versalite - thanks. That’s the name of my 10-20-degree bag.

I loved it so much I went and got an WM Ultralite, for summer (One pound! sweet). That took me from Catawba, VA to Katahdin (Sept. 18 finish).

A silk liner was perfect for mid-AT summer, buggy nights, with the WM UL as backup for unexpected mountain squalls.

For the three-season hiking I do, I’m set.

LiteShoe

#14

Take the plunge for a WM Kodiak 0 degree bag. Just arrived this week. Can’t wait to go out and play in that snowy cold that’s plunging down from Canada this weekend. :cheers

Bankruptcy Bob

#15

We both had WM ultralites. I definitely agree with them being incredily awesome! There is no substitue for down UNLESS you are trying to dry your clothes in your sack or the down gets wet. Then, it’s useless. Humidity can even be a problem. Don’t toss synthetic right away. If you plan on drying your clothes in your sack, consider synthetic. With that said, if you don’t care about the clothes or are have other means to get them dry, down all the way! I am 6’0" (5’11.75" to be more exact). I fit in the 6’0". I also have big feet (size 14) which adds to my length. I would recommend getting the 6’0" (Cookie) as a 6’6" will be harder to warm up and keep warm (with all the “dead” air inside).

On another note, a tip to stay warm in cold weather even if your sleeping bag isn’t rated that low, take a nalgene bottle with you (at least for cold weather) and fill it with boil water just before you go to bed. Put the water-filled nalgene in a sock or two and put that in your sleeping bag. It has enough thermal energy to keep you warm on a sub 0 night for about 8 hours or so. Plus, in the morning, when all the water sources are frozen, you have a liter of water to work with. Good luck 2005’ers!

Dave and Miranda

#16

I agree with Moose, check out the Marmot bags. They are great, the ratings are right on and they are a little cheaper than the WM’s.

JimmyP

#17

Feathered Friends also makes quality, ultralight down bags. I bought a FF Swallow with a Gore-Dryloft shell and 800+ down before my '98 thru-hike attempt and am still happy with the investment. (FF is also a bit pricey.) I remember one winter hike in VA where the thermometer read 6 degrees Fahrenheit at last check; I’m a cold sleeper, but my 20-degree bag was plenty warm that night. I did fill two Nalgenes with boiling water and stick them at the foot of my bag, which I think helped a lot that night.

FF gives you quite a few “custom” options, like three different widths, overfill, shell fabric, etc. Folks are steering you in the right direction with Western Mountaineering, but you may want to check FF out, too. By the way, my bag weighs 2 pounds, 2 ounces.

Ozone

#18

Cookie:

I used the WM Versalite this year until Pearisburg, VA and can agree with Jan and others that it is toasty warm. My 2003 bag was rated 15*. I’m 6’ and got a 6’6" bag so I could put my boots at the bottom on those below freezing nights. Frozen boots are not fun. I did not have a problem with keeping the bag warm and having that extra space there.

My summer bag, WM Highlite, I also got in 6’6" because the 6’ felt too snug on me lengthwise. I was compressing the down in the hood and the footbox and wanted a little more room for myself. Best to go to an outfitter and try one if you can if you’re ordering online.

I carried a silk liner for my whole hike and it was very useful for the reasons Jan stated above.

One note: I used to sleep cold, but one I started hiking everyday, my body turned into a furnace at night (remember to eat a lot). Soon I was leaving the Versalite unzipped because I was too warm.

Dharma