Colossal Cave to Manning Camp

imported
#1

I have just a couple sections left to complete the entire AZT and the next one is from Colossal Cave to Madrona. I’m wondering what routes people are taking since the section from Hope Camp to Madrona is not finished yet. I considered just going cross country from Hope Camp to Madrona but I’m also wondering if there is vehicle access anywhere near Madrona for a future backpack up and over the Rincons. We had previously done the route up and over from Turkey creek but now they have changed the route.

janice

#2

There are crews working on the trail and I hear it might be ready to hike by next spring–maybe Sirena will chime in here with more info. Do NOT hike the X-9 Ranch road to the Madrona gate. If you can’t wait for legal trail, the bushwhack is not very difficult. There are some old two-tracks (shown on the map) to follow most of the way.

I just hiked through there last week, my second time. It’s a nice hike. Most hikers take the X-C route shown in the old Tom Jones guidebook, I think. It’s an easy route to follow if you have a little experience reading a topo map. There are several fences to climb and you need to be stealthy–avoid Madrona. It might be a good idea to get a “fictitious” permit even if you don’t need to camp–less explaining to do in the unlikely event a ranger happens to see you. I’ve never seen anyone there, but at least one hiker I know got fined for not having a permit.

Good luck finishing the Trail and congratulations for getting this far.

Garlic

#3

Fined for not having a permit? Really? Unless the hiker were actually caught camping in SNP without one, or admitted to a ranger his steadfast intention to camp within the boundaries of the park without one, rather than smartly giving the bulletproof excuse of “long day hike thru the park and out the other end” or “planning to night hike as necessary,” then I see no grounds for fining a hiker. Certainly there’s nothing to worry about at the defunct and unstaffed Madrona ranger station; with or without a permit, it’s perfectly okay to be there. The NPS only states that there’s no longer vehicle access to Madrona (correct) and implores hikers not to exit the park at Madrona, in order to avoid the private X9 Ranch road sensitivities.

blisterfree

#4

The hiker I know who got caught was climbing toward Grass Shack in the late afternoon without a permit. So though he wasn’t actually camping, it was obvious he was going to have to soon, and wasn’t able to pull the night hiking excuse for whatever reason. Or maybe he’s just an honest guy. So he got a hefty fine–ouch.

The park map lists the area you hike through from Hope Camp to Madrona as a “restricted use area”. See http://www.saguaronationalpark.com/maps.html#SaguaroEast. I’m not sure what that means exactly, but I assume you either want to try to get permission or be somewhat stealthy.

Garlic

#5

I think the “RUA” must refer to no camping allowed, possibly no fires, and the like. As shown on the map, the RUA encompasses the existing foot trail to Hope Camp, which has an established, publicly-accessible trailhead on the west end.

Right now the only practical way for thru-hikers to get a last-minute permit for the Saguaro NP Wilderness backcountry would be by fax, possibly from Vail or Benson (or in person if somehow detouring to the distant SNP visitor contact station; NPS needs to understand that this is inconvenient for thru-hikers). And what if a permit isn’t available on short notice? In the future perhaps NPS and ATA could establish and distribute an Arizona Trail thru-hikers’ permit, with receipt upon payment before the hike and valid for one night’s stay within the Park with no date restrictions. Another option might be to install a self-registration kiosk at the old Madrona ranger station, either self-policed or requiring an advance phone call to NPS, say, from La Posta Quemado Ranch just prior to entry. Payment could be provided over the phone by credit card.

blisterfree

#6

Saguaro doesn’t seem to see much backcountry traffic, so the blanket permit idea would probably be workable. They’re not like Glacier, which is a royal pain, made worse by rangers who can’t believe anyone can hike 20 mile days. Grand Canyon NP is a different story, too.

In North Cascades NP, where I was caught last year by a ranger without a permit, they were really helpful and field-issued me a permit by radio. I explained to the ranger that the only way to get walk-in permit was by detouring to an office about 30 miles off the PNT, and if walking in from the East, the last town is 170 miles away making scheduling by fax difficult. The ranger said their enforcement is not very tough on exact times and places. If you have a permit for roughly the time and place you’re in there, you’ll be fine. I guess that’s basically a blanket permit for thru hikers. It’s not like they see very many up there.

It would be cool if Saguaro adopts that kind of policy. Now that the AZT is a NST, and there’s about to be a real trail, it may happen.

Garlic

#7

When I got my permit, the ranger was very concerned about the exact spot where I would be sleeping, checking lists for reservations, campground availability, etc. I didn’t see a single person in the park off of the asphalt. Some sort of “thru-hiker permit” for the entire trail would be great for Saguaro and Grand Canyon.

bowlegs