Homeless/mentally ill on the AT

imported
#1

Just about a month ago I was slackpacking 2 female hikers through Central VA, where I live. I hiked up to McAfee’s Knob to meet the girls. At the top of McAfee’s Knob, I met a “hiker” by the name of JJ or John. After talking with him just a few minutes I realized that he was “homeless”. (he wouldn’t admit it)and he was mentally ill. (of course, he wouldn’t admit that either) He was very hungary! Before I realized he wasn’t a SOBO hiker, I had already promised to take him, along with the girls to the Homeplace in Catawba. I knew that I would be paying for his meal but I didn’t care because I knew he was starving and I had to make sure he got some food. I didn’t feel threatened by him but I could see that he was delusional in his thinking. I wondered at some point if he would harm himself or someone. I came to the conclusion that he could get to that point sometime. It’s sad to think that this would have to happen before anyone would do anything to get him help. I reported him to the ATC and he was already in their “system”. I think about him everyday. I cried on the way home after dropping him off at the parking lot on RT. 311. He was wearing shorts. It was a cold night and I heard him tell another hiker he didn’t have any long pants. I personally don’t feel like the trail is safe with these types of people on it. I can’t believe that no one can get him the help he needs until he harms himself or someone else.

Karen

#2

Roanoke has in place the best resources for the homeless and needy in SW Va. If he wants it, all he has to do is go downtown.

Hikerhead

#3

Hey Hikerhead

You are right about Roanoke being a good place to get help. I didn’t know how to begin to tell this guy that I could easily see that he wasn’t “making sense” in conversation. Sometimes folks don’t know just how ill they really are. Are you from this area? Have you encountered anyone else like this? How should I have handled this situation? I fed him and I reported him to the local authorities. A Ranger called the next day and said he was going out to look for him. I don’t know what has happened to him. I care about him as a human being. I’m also worried about him and others being out there on the AT. It just seems like nothing will be done to get these folks help until something really bad happens.(unless of course they realize they need help themselves and get help on their own) I dropped the 2 female SOBO’s hikers 70 miles south of Catawba so they could “feel safe”. This guy didn’t seem like he was anywhere near ready to admit he needed any help at all. He said to us at the table, “this might be a bad time to bring this up but I don’t have any money.” I told him not to worry about it. I felt like saying, Buddy, I figured that out less than half way down McAfee’s Knob. You could tell he was a really intelligent man but so very ill. If this man had an obvious broken limb or something physically wrong, would we not insist on getting him help even though he wasn’t asking for help? This guy is in just as much need of help but we can’t physically SEE it. I’m venting…thanks for reading this. I don’t really know what we can do about this.

Karen

#4

We can urge and support more help for them, as you did.

And we can be kind to them, as you were.

Conan

Conan

#5

You were very kind to help this man and I understand your angst. We really haven’t figured out, as a society, how to deal with mentally ill people.

I live in a very large city and am confronted with this issue nearly every day. My gut reaction is to fear and hate these people. I know that’s not a very nice thing to say but, like I say, its my gut reaction. I think the fear is somewhat understandable and the hate probably comes from the fear.

I think part of it is also that I feel so overwhelmed by the sheer number. Pretty much every street corner has its resident homeless person and most of them have drug/alcohol problems and/ or mental illness.

In the old days, most would either be in jail or institutionalized and their is a debate going on here in my city over what is truly the most compassionate course to take. Leave folks on the street where they end up slowly dying or what.

The situation on the trail has its own unique problems. Its one thing to have a man babbling to himself on a street corner and an entirely different thing if your dealing with this person in a shelter. I think that 90% of these folks are probably completely harmless but what about the remaining numbers.

Stryker

#6

Thanks for your comments Conan and Stryker.

I know that most mentally ill people are harmless but like you said Stryker, what about the few that may harm someone?

I did some research on the different types of mental illness. Folks that suffer from Schizophrenia, for example, can be dangerous to themselves or others if they become paranoid. The danger increases with the use of alcohol. So many mentally ill people “self medicate”.
They use drugs and alcohol to get relief from their symtoms.

It is good to realize the difference between encountering mentally ill/homeless people on the street as opposed to in a shelter on the trail.

John or JJ’s mind was so"messed up" that I could easily see him become a danger to others. He had many delusional thoughts about the government and others that had a “normal life”.
Somehow he has “attached” himself to the AT. I guess it’s because there are shelters that he can live in for free. I had heard that he has been offically banned from the AT in the northern states.

We haven’t figured out what to do in society and now the problem is impacting the AT as well, just like you said.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Karen

#7

From my experience on the A.T. 1/3 of the people hiking and or associated with the a.t. are arguably mentally ill to a considerable degree.Is homelessness the defining characteristic of mental illness?. I think more liberally narcotic drug policies would help prevent mental illness from escalating to homelessness far better than current policies. The problem with our society is we all need a good chill pill without any hassle…

wanderlust

#8

Bottom line, Karen, there isn’t much you can to do help a mentally ill adult unless he seeks it. Interdictions are legally difficult and rare, and often unwise. Best you could do is try to sniff out any relatives of his, who might be able to give him a place to live or otherwise help out.

In the meantime, happy hinking!

armchair psych

#9

From my experience on the A.T. 1/3 of the people hiking and or associated with the a.t. are arguably mentally ill to a considerable degree

A full third of us are mentally ill? Bonafide bonkers? Round the bend? I’m sure I’m in that number.

Pass me a chill pill or a good bowl of bud; I can’t take news like that. :pimp

armchair psych

#10

I think that what you did is the greatest news I’ve heard this week. Helping someone in need, regardless of their mental state, is the best thing we can do as humans. For the past 3 summers I’ve helped the poor in D.C and Mobile. I will tell you that there are few things you can do for them. Food, shelter, and kind words. Sounds like you did all of those. If JJ or John wants help there are plenty of places for him to get.

As for his presence on the trail we really have no right to deny him access. No matter where you go in the word there will always be mentally ill people. We just have to deal with them and be prepared for anything.

My suggestion would be to notify local social workers and/or authorities. But thats just my opinion.

super scout

#11

I think as we journey through life, we all at one time or another could use a helping hand. It restores my faith in humanity knowing that there are people out on the the trail like Karen, God bless you.

chessnut

#12

Hey Karen…
I worked for a few years as the Mount Rogers Ridgerunner and met John one cold windy rainy day just north of Thomas Knob Shelter. It took just a few seconds to see something was wrong with him and just a few more to see he had some serious emotional issues. Sadly, he’s not the only broken soul living on The Trail or in the woods just off The Trail. I talked with him for 10 minutes or so in the midst of an intense thunderstorm. I could see inner turmoil in his eyes and hear them in his words. He almost instantly spoke of war, fasting, losing The Trail, lonliness. I notified The Forest Service, Backcountry Law Enforcement and The A.T.C. of his location. I never saw him again and never heard anything else about him. I met over 15,000 people as a Ridgerunner and I can only think of less than a dozen others like him. Many people are drawn to wilderness, including the sick.

Only by the grace of God… there goes I.

RidgeRunner

#13

There But for the Grace of God go I

Zirk

#14

Mental illness is a bye product of our society (meaning the way we think and the way we treat each other day to day causing people to that fall into a certain criterion and become more likely to become mentally ill).

Most people don’t start out full blown ill it develop overtime and get worse and get worse.

I agree that people need help but there’s a reason sick people don’t seek help.Why? 1)Help doesn’t work and or work fast enough 2)Our American system provides no quality of life and dignity for the sick.3)Sick people are viewed as having a character default not a ligament disability.

Our understanding of practical morality is were the problem lies.If we fix our morals then we may not have this problem.In the mean time continue to help the sick and may GOD bless you for it.

wanderlust

#15

Thanks so much for sharing!! I know this is the same man, John, that you and I both talked too. I could see the turmoil in his eyes as well. I was amazed about that fact… the words coming out of his mouth matched the “look” in his eyes. I’m so glad that you shared your experience with me. How long ago did you talk with him near the Thomas Knob Shelter? Was it this year?

I asked him about his family. He told me he was from Maryland. He said he isn’t close to any family. He spoke about wanting to go South Carolina. Something about wanting to be near the Indians there. He talked about something bad that happened to him as a baby. He was stabbed in the face or something horrible like that.

I know he was up in MA this summer. One of the female hikers that I was slackpacking recognized him instantly. She is a flip flopper. She hiked NOBO from Harpers Ferry. She summitted Katadin and was SOBO when she saw him AGAIN (with me) on MCAfee’s Knob. He recognized her and remembered her trail name as well. Her encounter with him “up north” made her feel very uncomfortable.

We put our uncomfortable feelings aside that day coming down from McAfee’s Knob because we knew he was so hungry and needed to eat.

You are so right about, Only by the grace of God…that is so true.

As far as us all being “normal”? There’s no such thing as “normal”. “Normal” is only a setting on a dryer! We all have our quirks and odd ways but when you can’t function everyday to do the things that needs to be done to take proper care of yourself then we need to test for mental illness. Just like a physical illness, it needs to be treated. Without treatment a person will get worse and is capable of all kinds of destructive behavior to themselves and/or others. Sometimes,part of the illness is the lack of awareness that they are ill.

My daughter hiked 520 miles on the AT this year and didn’t notice anyone with “severe” mental problems.(ha ha) Anyway, I know most folks out there are feeling fine but the ones that aren’t feel so good need help. I know you can’t force another adult person to get the help they need (like in John’s case) but it just doesn’t seem right KNOWING that he’s ill, with the potential of harming himself or others… there’s nothing we can do until something bad happens?

Thank you everyone for your comments!! Thanks again RidgeRunner for you info and for doing your job out there as a ridge runner!! God Bless you all!

:wink: :wink: :wink:

Karen

#16

Karen I also appreciate your sharing. If I may ask what was the demographic of the male that you’re profiling.

Karen you seem like a really nice person and have a good heart.

I’m just trying to get the facts straight.

OK sweetie…:lol :lol :lol

wanderlust

#17

Heya Karen…

I beleive it was 2006 when I met John but possibly 2005, either April or May. I was heading South towards T.K. Shelter to get out of the storm. Lightning was literally crashing all around on the unprotected totally exposed ridgeline. About 5 minutes before I got there, off to my left, about 30 feet off The Trail, I saw someone standing/hiding inside of a large thicket of Rhodis. I kept walking and made some space between me and this sketchy behavior, circled around off The Trail and walked back North directlly toward him in the open/plain view. As I approached, he stumbled out of the bush and said “I found it! I found it! I found The Trail!” I responded “Hey buddy, I know where The Trail is and your not on it” He looked at me with his rattling eyes and said “Oh, I guess, you know where The Trail is”
I asked if he was Thru-hiking and he said he was. We was wearing blue jeans and carrying an old large external frame pack. I knew he wasnt thru-hiking. I asked when he started his hike and it seemed to cause his eyes to rattle more severely. He couldnt remember when he started. I asked him his name and it looked like his eyes almost rolled back in his head. Took him at least 10 seconds of total silence between us before he said his name was John. He seemed to be struggling to even reach/find/remember/say his name. Seemingly out of no where our brief talk turns. He says “You think your pack is heavy? Mine was 115 pounds and his was almost 150 pounds” No one else there. He continued to tell me stories of War, Vietnam. Before, he went off the deep end I tried to interupt his train of thought. I said his name kind of loudly “John! Are you ok?”
He was totally derailed, he looked me off, his eyes were shaking like a hypothermic person shakes and jerks. Just not his body, only his eyes. Eventually, He said he was just hungry. I had some candy in my pocket, pulled some out, and ate a piece. I offered him some and he said he was fasting and not eating. Def. not a clear headed behavior for a hiker soaked by cold rain. Soon, he accepted the candy but I didnt see him eat it. I asked him to come to the shelter with me but that only brought out more confusion and seemed to kinda aggitate him. He said he’d hiked The PCT, The CDT and had hiked The A.T. a few times. He said he had miles to go before he could sleep and wouldnt go back to the shelter with me. I stood in the rain and watched him walk up the ridge in the storm. I saw lightning strike within 20 yards of him and prob. 60 yards from me. I went to the shelter to dry/warm. Five hikers there told me they saw him the night before at Lost Mountain shelter. He showed up late at night asking for help, even demanding someone to help. He gave no reason for wanting assistance and was gone about the time he got there. I asked if he stopped by T.K. shelter and they said no, he just walked by. They all seemed to know him as the crazed fasting hiker. I sat with them for about 10 minutes before I put my wet rain gear back on and went back North after John. I wanted to do something for him, to protect him from himself. I hiked as hard as I could to just past Massie Gap but never saw him. I walked back South over Wilburn Ridge to Rhodi Gap more cautiously expecting to spot him tented out somewhere but never did. I took The Crest Trail over to The Scales and got out of the rain myself. The next morning I headed South. I asked everyone I saw that day if anyone had met john and no one had. I talked to everyone that stayed at Wise Shelter the night before and no one saw him. That day I swept both sides of The Trail and kept thinking I would come across him in a tent under a tarp or something. I neevr saw a sign of him, nobody else saw him after T.K. Shelter.

Jhn was prob in his 40’s but he looked older like he’d been living hard, hard to get an exact age on him.

Gotta go for now… Be safe

RidgeRunner

#18

Wow, I find this encounter very interesting. Thanks!! I know it’s got to be the same guy!

So Ridgerunner and wanderlust this is my physical description of JJ…

about 6 feet tall, very thin, brown eyes, completely bald head on top but long hair on the sides, really long beard. He looked to be about anywhere from late 30’s to 40 something.(like you said, hard to get an exact age on him) He did look like he had a rough life. His skin on his forehead was dark from being out in the sun but I can’t remember it being wrinkled looking. I know his teeth were rotting because at dinner he spit part of his tooth out as he was eating. I don’t remember his front teeth looking rotted, maybe some but not bad.

I told him he needed to go to the dentist. He didn’t seem to like that comment. I asked him if his tooth hurt. He didn’t seem to be in any pain. He didn’t really answer some questions very good. He said something about his teeth being the “weakest link”?

When I saw him he was wearing shorts and had a backpack that had grey duct tape on it. He had an orange shirt that said, Young Life. I happened to know that Young Life is a Christian group that has an outreach to high school students. I asked him if he was a Christian. He said, Yes, that he was alot like Jesus.

The part of the story where you said his eyes “rattled” when asked questions about his hiking is going along with what I heard about him up North. I heard from other hikers that he got agitated when they asked him any questions about how far he had hiked or anything to do with hiking.

I also heard that he was getting annoyed because there were so many hikers coming into the shelter where he was “living” apparently.

His eyes were definately very “telling”. I noticed during dinner that he had a strange/far off look to them a few times.

He didn’t speak of war to us. He talked about music. He said that I reminded him of Alanis Morissett. He seemed obsessed with her. He said that when she sang songs they were written for him.
I can’t stop thinking about him and how I wished I could help him!! I was a little afraid but mostly I felt bad for him.

Reading about you out there looking for him, makes me so emotional. I’m glad you stayed safe! I feel so many things.

He did talk about hunger doing funny things to your mind. He told the section hiker that he was talking to when I arrived that he was hungry. He said he dreamed of food yesterday. When you got to the Home Place he said he couldn’t believe he was here.

I guess I was most worried about dropping him off at the parking lot because I didn’t know what he would do or say. He thanked me and said, “God bless you”. I said the same thing back to him. I watched him walk into the woods off the parking lot. He was heading SOBO, the next shelter was 12 miles. If he went NOBO, there was a shelter 1 mile back. He wanted to “check out” the 2 shelters we past coming down. He asked us if he could check out that last shelter,(it was close to the trail and I had to tie my shoe) He really seemed to like it! My daughter was waiting for us in the parking lot so we had to keep moving. It seemed like the hike down was hard on him phycially because he was breathing a little funny. Almost like a moaning type sound.

I asked him how long he had been “living” on the trail, he said about 10 years. I asked him how he was able to get money to live, even on the trail. (this is how i figured out he didn’t have any money) He said that it was the “magic” of the trail. He said that we could walk around the next mountain and find a pile of money on the ground. I said, “Wow, that would be super natural”. He asked, “Do you like super natural stories?” “I can tell you some”, and on it went.

Wanderlust…the smiley faces are funny!! I tried to put the “winking one” up in the note itself. I couldn’t figure out how to do it and was SURPRISED when there were 3 winking faces at the bottom of the note…Ha Ha!!

Ridgerunner, thanks again for sharing. I wonder if we will ever know how he is doing. I’m going to pray for him everyday from now on. I’m going to pray that God will watch over him and protect him and keep him safe along with everyone else out there. It’s nice chatting with you all. Karen

Karen

#19

I read this post a few days ago and I’ve been thinking of JJ ever since there. It sounds like he’s had a tough life but it sounds like God has kept a good eye on him. He brought you into his life, if only for a few moments, and I imagine that you are not the first to help him.

As for prayers, I would like to suggest this old Irish prayer:

“May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face and rains fall soft on your fields. And until we meet again, may God hold you in the hollow of His hand.”

Super Scout

#20

Super Scout

I LOVE that prayer!! My husband, daughter and I will be going out on the AT on this weekend hiking from Daleville over to McAfee’s Knob ending at RT 311 (exactly where we saw him over a month ago) I will be praying, thinking and looking out for him as we hike along. I agree with you 100%, I know others will be kind to him and have been kind to him along the way. God uses all of us to help others in need. It feels good!! Thanks for your kind words Super Scout!

Karen