Ice axe and crampons, yep i'm asking

imported
#1

So with the Sierra snowpack looking average at this point, i’m wondering who is planning on bringing ice axe, crampons, or both.

It sounds like axe and no spikes is standard. I have crampons and was looking forward to using them, since i’ve always felt sure with them and they make it so you can steamroll up slopes early before the sun makes things slow or posthole-y. But, they’re heavy, and they aren’t exactly optimal for use with trail runners, since the shoe platform is just curved enough that the spikes aren’t going to hit with all 10 points at once. I tried it out and it’s far from useless, but it’s not as solid as using the spikes on real boots. I am reluctant to bring the heavy leather boots i would normally use, either in addition or instead of my trail runners. They always feel great. I can do big miles in them. But they are HEAVY.

My axe is heavy too…a mountaineering one…but i’m not inclined to buy a new lightweight one for what will amount to 2 weeks of use. It seems like if the terrain is serious enough to use an axe, you’d want a one that’s bombproof.

So i’m stuck not knowing what to do.

markv

#2

When I hiked the PCT in an average snow year ('04), I started with a lightweight ice axe and trail runners. I shipped the ice axe home at Independence, never used it except to dig latrine holes.

Now I hike a lot of snow here in Colorado and only use trail runners and trekking poles. My traditional partners do better on the icy stuff, but I’m always better off at the end of the day.

Just my experience. I had a moderate amount of snow climbing experience before the PCT. It sounds like you do, too. My PCT partner kept her axe up to Sonora Pass, but she didn’t have as much snow experience and liked the security (and the potty holes).

Have a great hike this year.

Garlic

#3

I think you will be happy with any ice axe and will find it useful at certain points in the high sierra. When I thru hiked I didn’t need it very often, but glad I had it when traversing long snow fields. I didn’t have crampons and would have only liked them a small handful of times but didn’t think they were necessary. Also you may want to check out http://www.kahtoola.com/ These crampons or spikes are great because they go right over you trail runners. I found them very useful on the CDT, didn’t know about them when I hiked the PCT in 02.

Wildflower

#4

I know those crampons look really cool, they feel really cool, and you’re just dying to strap them on your feet and crunch through the ice up a mountain, as you plant your ice axe and thin alpine wind whips through your crusty beard… aargh… I’ve been there, done that, and you know what? it IS cool.

But, the reality is that it’s just not very practical on the PCT. Crampons are made for steep hard ice, not snow, and not flat areas. Yes, you might encounter some steep crusty ice in a few places along the PCT - in the early morning on some high passes, or across lingering snow fingers later in the day or season. But in nearly all of those cases, it’s going to be faster to cut steps with the adze of your ice axe than it will be to strap on/off crampons. Plus, there’s a good chance that someone will have already cut steps… and/or you can cut them for those behind you (which will make you some friends on the trail ;-).

If you use crampons on the snow, there’s a good chance they’ll just end-up balling the snow underneath (depending on the crampon design), which means you’ll have to thwack your feet every two steps - a serious pain. Plus, there’s just nothing for crampons to bite into on soft snow. you’ll be kicking steps with your boring shoes/boots anyway, and that will give you plenty of purchase to handle just about anything. If you do slip, you’ll have an ice axe (btw, an ice axe is pretty cool too… plus it’s lighter and more versatile, and easier to make use of).

If you really have your heart set on actually using the crampons, maybe you could plan a side trip to climb Mt. Shasta or something (where you’ll have to be climbing in the dark, when everything will be icy… if it’s not melted-out by the time you get up there).

If you’re looking for some heavy strap-on footwear to carry in the sierras, you might do better with some lightweight snowshoes to help minimize the endless postholing that you might be enjoying this year!

Jonathan

#5

This is so cool, and it’s just like the various replies i’ve gotten on the yahoo group and PCT L. So far there are 4 votes for buying new, lighter gear. 3 votes for bringing axe and spikes, 4 votes for axe only, 3 votes for crampons only, and 3 votes for neither.

So, i’ll end up guessing, and then next year i can be the one confusing the thru-bies!

markv

#6

I’m sorry everyone can’t make your decision for you. Not everything in the world is cut and dry, my friend. :slight_smile:

Patrick

#7

My experience: 2006 (heavy snow year), KM date of June 14 (June 18 up Whitney, June 19 on Forrester, June 20 on Glen…see the TJ for the rest…)

Axe: Camp XLA210 - it’s fully rated and light. Saved my butt on Glen, where I fell heading up. Saved me from turning around when I got to the top of Glen and looked at the north side (VERY steep and very scary). On my way up Glen, I met a couple heading back south after seeing the north side - too high a pucker factor for them without axes. The pucker factor on Mather was also very high - I’m glad I had the axe for the scary as heck traverse on the steep terrain above jagged rocks just before the pass. The axe was worth every ounce and dollar. I bought it just for the PCT and haven’t used it since. Carried it from KM to Tahoe, although I could have sent it out at Bridgeport (the Elephant Back isn’t bad).

Crampons: Carried and seldom used 6 point insteps. I wouldn’t carry them again. The fall on Glen was with them on. If you wait just a little bit in the morning for the snow to soften and are appropriately careful and deliberate with your footwork you’ll be fine without them. You can also chop steps where you need to with the axe.

If you’re unsure of getting a lighter axe, wait until Agua Dulce to make your decision. At that point, you’ll have a good idea of the spring storm / snow melt situation (recall that LOTS of the 06 snow pack happened in mid April, delaying the melt off).

If at Agua Dulce you feel the need for a lighter axe, take a ride into LA to the REI or other out door store and get a light axe. Mail it to KM from AD. Otherwise, have your heavy axe sent to KM for you (or send it to AD now, then forward to yourself at KM from AD, or send home, as the situation dictates).

Getting a lighter axe also depends on your Sierra resupply stragegy. I went straight through to VVR, so I was very pack weight critical (~45 pounds total leaving KM - bear can, axe, crampons, 11 days of food and a full liter of fuel were what caused the killer load). If you’re cutting out for resupply post Forrester the extra pound or two of your existing axe vs. a XLA 210 or similar light axe won’t be so bad.

Markv - I will suggest that in the end it’s not about guessing, it’s about finding the right combination of skills and equipment for the terrain and (estimated) conditions you’ll encounter given your level of risk tolerance.

Token Civilian

#8

Patrick, i wasn’t complaining (though i can see how a few letters in caps can make it seem like it…so THERE (like that). And i have a good idea of my skill level and comfort zone. So i’m not looking for anyone to make my decision for me. I’m just thinking back to my late summer experience on the JMT, trying to extrapolate what it would be like with “average year” early summer snow. I guess one thing i haven’t done is to look back at some Trailjournalers’ pictures. I tend to just read and not wait for pictures to load.

Interesting notes from Token C, since when i was doing my imagining the only 2 passes i could think of that were possibly steep enough to be concerned about a self-arrest were north side of Glen and south side of Mather.

I’m meeting a friend and resupplying from Trail Pass, with a package to either MTR (if it’s open) or VVR. So for now, i’m leaning towards having my friend bring my axe and crampons to Trail Pass. Then if word is that things have melted out, we can leave them there and she’ll retrieve them when she goes back to her car. I’m too cheap to buy lighter ones for only maybe 10 days worth of use. And i like mine…they look well-used, which is much more chic than brand-new shiny axe and spikes. And it’s all about the look. :pimp

markv

#9

Mark V, you mean to tell us you actually have time to post other sites? Impressive.

Sammy

#10

…but still i gotta say: “i don’t get it.” Are you saying my posts are long? Too many? That i really should be getting my resupplies ready instead of spending time online???

markv

#11

“All of the above”. Hey, this could also serve as a trail name if you need one. Other options: “Has to post” or “Always on-line”:smiley:

Sammy

#12

The option is always there to not read my posts. And if you do a quick search you’ll find that over the past year i post on average about twice a week. And a cursory glance at this thread shows my posts are shorter than average. That cuts into my time soooo much. I’d better skip breakfast! Anyway, i hit the PCT for good in early May and you won’t have to be offended by my posting anymore.

I can think of a more direct, vulgar, and appropriate way to tell you this, but hey it’s trailforums so i’ll say it this way: HYOH.

markv

#13

So is ripping on Go Lite. You are real kewl. HYOSH

Sammy

#14

Sammy, keep your bizarre personal vendetta to yourself. If someone’s gear turns out to be bad, i’d like to hear about it, and what’s wrong with questions about axe and crampons? It’s better than reading your random one-line jabs at this guy. Did he bang your wife or something???

I don’t think we need a good hiking forum screwed by internet “road rage” like this.

Andrew RJ