Input Requested from Adult Scout Leader

imported
#1

I am an adult leader with the Boy Scouts of America. Over the past ten years I have been one of the troop’s adults who has taken older scouts (13 – 17) on backpacking trips. I think that our troop does a good job of hiking and camping responsibility. We practice LNT principals. Our group size ranges from 8 – 12 participants. We leave campsites cleaner than we find them. We assist with conservation projects.

I have read on forums that some people have a negative opinion of scouts as campers. With very few exceptions, our contacts with other hikers have been positive ones.

We are preparing for another “fifty-miler” in late June. If you have had an experience with scouts that led you to have a poor opinion of them, please tell me in general what it was. If we can improve our hiking so as to better share the trail, we all win.

Thank you,
Bill

Bill

#2

Thank you for having the sensitivity to ask. Our experiences with Scouts have always been positive. I think some hikers resent losing their solitude when a group appears. It sounds like your scouts are well behaved. I am glad that they are out enjoying nature and the wilderness!

GottaWalk

#3

My primary complaint with most boy scout groups is the inability to figure out what to do with left over food. It seems they either want to bury it or put it in the privy. If you bury the waste, some animal will dig it up and spread it all over the place. If you put it in the privy, you reduce to life time of the privy and create a huge amount of work for trail volunteers. It seems funny this has happened with every boy scout troup I’ve shared a shelter with and yet, every time I talk to a boy scout leader about it, he swears they know not to do these things.

Girl scouts on the other hand, don’t seem to have this problem. First, they offer any left overs to anyone who isn’t a member of their group and then know they have to carry the rest out.

There are other complaints, but we aren’t ever going to quiet the kids down. Naturally, it’s a little disconcerting to hike 20 - 25 miles to a shelter, only to find it full of screaming kids.

Bear Bag Hanger

#4

I’m a huge fan of anyone willing to take kids in the woods! Over the years I’ve seen fewer Scout troops out there, so I’m glad to hear you are still doing it. I’ve generally had positive interactions with Scouts on the trail. I’m always happy to see kids out there, so I’m willing to sacrifice a little peace and quiet to see it happen. I am usually hiking in the High Sierra, so I can choose to camp away from the troop – no shelters to share.

I think the negative perceptions of Scouts as campers result from a few groups with inexperienced leaders who do not adequately teach the kids and who do not know or care to enforce LNT principles. Glad to hear that your well trained Scouts will be out there this summer to give Scouts a good name. Happy hiking!

Kanga

#5

As a past scout leader and a counselor at a summer youth camp I can relate to your question. As a solo backpacker I can only say that a group of kids has a different agenda and having fun is on the top of their list. They can not help but be a bit rambunctious and noisy. It is best to keep your group numbers low. In the ADK we can only bring out 6 kids with 2 counselors in any of the High Peak areas. Next try NOT to take over shelter areas. Camp in sites that are not close enough to disturb hikers staying in shelters. Don’t overcook. – On the other hand “hikers” need to realize that they were young once and that it is better to have the Boy Scouts in the woods, then Hoods in the Woods. – Enjoy and have fun with your scouts.:girl

Hammock Hanger

#6

In my opinion, scouts should be broken into smaller groups and spaced about 1 mile apart. It sucks to have a nice camping spot arranged with some friends, only to have a herd of 15 or more scouts roll in all at once. They do tend to be loud - as KidHater said - and they’re terribly annoying with all of the rock throwing and f-ing off.

Also, since backpacking is an adult activity - primarily a younger adult activity (kids can’t drive themselves) - scouts might be subjected to foul language, pot, alcohol, or any other low-key activity one might consider relaxing and non-invasive to others. Scout leaders have no right to ask/expect anyone who already has their camp sat up to change any part of their itenerary to accomodate youngsters. Some folks just don’t like kids. If you, as a scout leader, sense the situation in a particular campsite might be inappropriate…move along to the next one if it’s available.

It’s a good idea to plan on not camping in or near shelters along the AT (or any other already crowded trail) if you have a bunch of kids tagging along. That might seem terribly selfish, but if they continue backpacking as they age, they will surely understand someday.

Horn Head

#7

Adults and children have different rhythmns and the difference seems to jar adults.

As adults, we must remember what being a child is like, and be kind about everything.

It might help if the adult troop leaders spaced things out a bit more with respect to already established campers (if they are not already doing so); but, as adults, with respect to the children, we must to some extent “grin and bear it.”

And remember, those children are in awe of you. Any small kindness you show them will be remembered forever.

Conan

Conan

#8

Thanks for asking Bill.

I’m probably one of those that get upset with scouts. But I think the problem is also a leadership problem.

Having been a scout and an adult that continues to take teenagers backpacking, I still fight some of the same problems most scout leaders face.

Here are what I see as some of the biggest problems I encounter:

  1. Leaving clothing in camp. wet socks, jackets, shorts. Other thru hikers will tell you when you visit a shelter in the Smokies you will find food cans, socks and even tennis shoes in the shelters. And they are small sizes. At the Double Springs shelter below Clingmons Dome after a group of scouts I carried out a garbage bag full of clothes left behind from one troup.

  2. Food. as someone said earlier, they leave it in the woods, in privies, in fire-rings, and try to bury it. Foil and cans will not burn! Why do they continue to try. If you look in the fire ring and see old foil and cans, why do they try to burn theirs? I guess if it is reduced somewhat in size it is OK.?.

  3. food wrapers. in camp, along the trail, in the privies. We could always tell when a troup of scouts was in front of us by the trail they left.

  4. disturbing the creeks. I know they like to play in the water but they turn over every stone looking for something to catch. Then if they find a deep hole, they throw every big rock they can find in the hole.

  5. One of my biggest grips, cutting down trees and breaking off limbs. It seems like every group I run into has at least one hatchet!

Believe me, I’m never troubled by the noise. Kids are kids and they will make noise. I wished I had that much energy now.

Bill, an observation I had in '02 on our thru hike was that we did not see a single group of scouts that were well prepared for backpacking. Almost to the kid their packs were too large, too much junk hanging off of them (including folding lawn chairs) and they all seemed to be struggling, including the adults. On two occasions in the SNP in northern VA an adult leader was having to take one of the scouts out of the woods because they couldn’t hike under the load of their packs.

My hat is off to you for taking the time to show these young men the outdoors and being brave enough to ask this group for comments.

Have a great hike this year.

P.S. The local beer party hiker that uses the trail near road crossings are the worst. They walk in a few hundred yards (as far as they can carry the coolers) and build a big fire-ring and eat their KC fried chicken, then proceed to break the bottles on the rocks and pile up the cans in the woods. Those are the ones I wish they would hang from the trees by their toes. Sorry, just venting.

Papa Smurf

#9

Great question. I have found 2 things problematic. First, groups have their own behaviors that are sometimes difficult to be around for other people. Any group tends to be noisy; people shout to each other etc.

Second, they tend to take over shelters leaving no room for thru/section hikers. My understanding is that the shelters are not meant for groups.

But many of us remember our first camping experiences with the scouts, and they are invaluable, if handled properly.

cece

#10

Admittedly, leaders are the ksy here. There are a lot of leaders who (with good intentions) take scouts out into the woods for an adventure but have little or no experience themselves. This is most likely why they are overloaded, over packed with food and sometimes ill prepared for the trek. Too bad because the boys are eager to learn and will almost always follow the advice given. A well thought out plan with dedicated leaders can result in a good, positive experience for the scouts that will leave a lasting impression on them for when they grow up and sometimes, lead other youngsters into the woods.

As mentioned above, the alternative is often those who “hike” in with kegs and proceed to destroy everything in sight and earshot in the name of “fun”. That is the primary reason the Green Mountain Club has moved many of their shelters out of the range of an easy walk from the road. Of course, some of “them” solve that problem for everyone else by torching shelters they are partying at.

WoodBadge

#11

I have had mostly good encounters with scouts except for as papa smurf said about trash. I have run an outdoors club at the school I teach at and we solved that problem by always having an adult in front and most importtant behind the group. In the morning we pack up completely then the adults check each tent site and the fire ring if there was one before we leave. This summer I have been drafted by the local troop to assist them on their 50 miler in Pa. We have 4 adults and 6 scouts and will do a weekend hike next weekend to check out everyone as for as conditioning, etc. Looking forward to showing some more young men why I love the woods so much!
Roadrunner

Roadrunner

#12

on my 2003 thru-hike, i spent several nights sharing space with scouts, boys and girls. i found the experience to mostly pleasant, and very entertaining.(like reality T.V.). these are young kids trying to have fun and learn alittle about the outdoors. i don’t understand why some thur-hikers act as if it where"there"A.T.the trail is for all who seek it. everyone needs to have more tollerance and learn how to play nice together. it’s a lot easier for a single hiker to pack-up and move 2 miles up the trail, than a whole group. we all live on the same shrinking planet, lets try to get along, and not forget we were not born “eitist” hikers, we were imperfect kids once also. good luck to the brave souls who take the time to try to teach teanagers about the natural world. keep up the good work!!! Magic Rat A.T. 2003

Magic Rat

#13

Hello MR. I saw met you at Delaware Water Gap just past the visitors center. you were with turtle I think? I told you that Pay Phone and Red Dirt were just a day ahead.

Tabasco

#14

i actually like what ya said bill. Only thing i can think of would be to possible find campsites away from water sources and such highly populated camping areas. Some folks don’t understand that you can set up camp almost anywhere with that number of tents and still leave absolutely no trace. In 04 a large group of us began avoiding shelters and found that we were still able to enjoy so much of the experience. I know there are many places where a group of your size isn’t going to find campsite locations even at shelters. Thruhikers may imply they own shelters…on the contrary they are better equipped to camp out actually. So don’t worry if you can only shelter to shelter hike. PS. thanks for cleaning up after the thruhikers. They amazingly have some weird ideas of what leave no trace means.

burn

#15

Thanks for your post. My observations on Scout Groups and how to avoid negative feelings towards them:

  1. Keep the group size as small as posible. On the A.T., groups shouldn’t be larger than 10 people. Larger groups will monopolize and negatively impact tentsites, shelters, etc. If your group must be larger than this, find a large campsite well away from an established tentsite/shelter.

  2. Whatever the size of the group, whatever the weather, Scout groups shouldn’t be in shelters, ever. Keep these spaces free for individuals, couples, small groups, etc. When a large group (scouts, church groups, school groups, etc.) takes over a shelter, it effectively knocks out all sorts of folks from enjoying the site. Bring tents or tarps for your whole group and plan on tenting or tarping. Except for very rare circumstances (like Overmountain Shelter in North Carolina which can accomodate forty-odd people) groups shouldn’t plan to stay in shelters.

  3. Keep the kids QUIET. Kids are talkative, and sometimes boisterous. They’re kids, after all. But NOBODY wants to be around a noisy group in the woods. The biggest complaint about Scout/School/Church/Camp groups is NOISE. Tell the kids to keep it quiet WHILE hiking, and also in camp.

  4. Pay attention to the kids. In my experience, the kids that create problems, like noise, or chopping down live trees, leaving messes in the woods, etc., are kids that either haven’t been trained beforehand, or they are kids who are left to their own devices once the group is in the woods.

  5. Leave the place BETTER than you found it. Bring extra garbage bags and police up your campsite; pack out whatever doesn’t belong, whether it’s yours or somebody else’s. It’s a great lesson for the kids and will greatly impress other hikers, especially those who have negative perceptions about group hikers.

A good Scout group is a joy to be around. A bad one is a nightmare. I NEVER blame the kids. It’s a leadership thing, and well-taught kids will do just fine, and more to the point, will continue to be good people and good hikers as they grow older.

Thanks again for posting.

  1. Keep a neat camp. All too many Scout groups leave garbage, put improper stuff in fire rings, etc. There’s no excuse for this.

Ex Scout

#16

i do remember you, i was sitting on a rock waiting for turtle when you came along and told me about “Dirt”&“Bone” were about a half day ahead. i never did catch them, and they finished about 5 days ahead of turtle and i. you have a great memory. how did your hike go??

Magic Rat

#17

Thank you all for your comments. These are helpful and I will use them as we prepare for our hike.

I too am sometimes frustrated by the noise level of our group. We do tell the scouts to keep the noise down on the trail, but as some of you observed, these are kids and trying to keep their energy in check is like trying to keep lightning in a bottle.

The one comment I take exception to centered around the premise that occasionally “scouts might be subjected to foul language, pot, alcohol, or any other low-key activity one might consider relaxing and non-invasive to others”. If we encountered this in a group that was at a site first the poster encouraged to consider moving on.
In my opinion foul language, pot, and excessive alcohol consumption are not appropriate on any public trail. They are also against the law in most places. If you choose to camp in that manner you should camp on private land and not impose your behavior on the hiking community at large.

Good hiking to you all, and we’ll see you on the trail.

Bill (original poster)