Insurance - Appalachian Trail

imported
#1

There are many good responces here. As someone who works for a major insurance personally. Yes, you will pay a higher amount each month on the front end. Actually you’re paying the entire amount of the insurance instead of your employeer. But, this gives you the same medical coverage you’ve had while you were employeed and peace of mind. If you go with Fortis I would look at it very carefully. Look for things that max out or may not be covered. Also look for a lifetime max. I would deinfately not hike without insurance. One injury on the trail could financially ruin the rest of your life.

Say for example you snapped your leg or knee and needed surgery. This could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars including all the long term physical therapy you would need. Or even worse say you fell on your head and suffered a brain injury. Yes, these are extreme examples but they do happen more than people think.

Guru

#2

Fearmongering little insurance dude…
The Trail teaches how to understand that fears are pointless, so it’s super-ironic that you should post here with worst case scenarios: “YOU MIGHT HAVE A BRAIN HEMMORHAGE!!” Forget about fear. Like a femur can just “snap” like you say. Sheesh.
Don’t use insurance. If you get hurt, just go to a hospital and they’ll treat you. Screw The Man. If you earn little enough, most hospitals will forgive your debt, also Medicaid is always an option. Insurance is a pyramid scheme designed to make a few folks very very rich and screw the working people out of their earnings by playing on their fears – insurance is nothing more than redistribution of wealth upward. Just hike. If you get hurt, no worries. We live in a compassionate society. Your government will save you, just like it did New Orleans. But seriously, a hospital has to treat you if you are sick or injured. Either you can pay or not. The insurance ripoff is second only to the credit-card scam: legalized theft and redistribution of wealth upward.

On the other hand, one trip to the supermarket could ruin yo for the rest of your life. Or you could snap you neck in half JUST LIKE THAT by falling off the toilet.

Thanks for your fearmongering, mister insurance-company tool. You won’t stop as long as there’s still a fool to trick into giving you money. People like you are bleeding the country dry of its cash reserves and enslaving the working and middle class.

Hike without insurance: FORCE society to do the right thing for all of us, not just those who can afford to pay.

zenger miller

#3

Wrong. It is not up to society to pay for your medical debts. If everyone acted like this, the entire economy would fall apart. Society owes you nothing my friend. Life isn’t a free ride. If anything, you owe society.

Yes, emergency rooms will treat you but you won’t get the follow up care that most ER visits require. If you need an anti-biotic or other medication, they won’t give you enough in the ER. You’ll have to buy them.

If you break your leg, no hospital is going to GIVE YOU PHYSICAL THERAPY for like a broken leg.

They can also screw up your credit by not paying them making it harder to buy a car or a house. You can probably make arrangements for payments though.

Applying for Medicaid when you are an out of state resident is nearly impossible which is what you probably are while on the AT.

Now in saying all this, most people will be fine without medical insurance on the AT. But don’t expect society and others to pay for something you refuse to. It makes it more expensive for us who do pay into the system to treat people like you who don’t.

Bill White

#4

You are a complete idiot if you honestly believe that the insurance companies are trying to redistribute wealth and the government liberals pushing medicaid and high taxes are not. Gather some information about the industry you speak of before you drink the kool-aid.
Insurance is one of the most regulated industries and price is usually directly related to the risk exposure, not just some scheme to take your money.
Typical Libs,

Keytone GAME 04:cheers

Keytone

#5

Interesting perception zenger miller. I don’t advocate fear. I’m actually an open-minded liberal. I’m the guy you sleep next to in the shelter. I’m the guy who looks and smells just like you. I’m the guy who doesn’t like W. or Fox. But, I also believe in making responsible decisions. This is why I suggested insurance. By the way, I’m not ‘the man’ nor a ‘tool’.

To clarify, I didn’t mention anything about a femur snapping or your brain just hemorrhaging. I mentioned that you could suffer an injury to your knee or leg. By this I meant you could injure your leg. Ankle and knee injuries are quite common. Especially for those who already have some knee issues. A fall on rocky terrain could definitely cause a subdural hematoma.

By leaving society to pick up the bill because you didn’t want to work a bit harder or longer, and get insurance before hitting the AT is horrible. This results in higher taxes for everyone. Using something like Medicaid for a true emergency is one thing. But, when you’re not being socially responsible is another.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2885.htm

guru

#6

Anarchist, not liberal, thanks. Besides, look up ‘liberal’ sometime, you’ll be surprised. Then look up ‘fascist’ and you’ll see that it’s one-party, right wing rule. Oh, that’s what we have here now … DOH!

Society always pays for pyramid schemes, in the end, which is what insurance IS: a pyramid scheme. Insurance companies are solely responsible for the bizarre and unsustainable increases in the cost of health care in this country. The United States effectively rations health care to those who can pay the most for it. Insurance creates an environment of victimless crime where everybody pays too much.

The hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills you mentioned isn’t fact-based, but profit-induced. If health care was provided at real cost, not artificial cost, the entire nation would be healthier, more able to support itself and there would be no need for insurance.

We’ve just been trained to believe that this twisted pyramid scheme of an economic system is the only way to do things, and W. and Fox are keeping that gravy train running. A responsible society wouldn’t screw its citizens like this one does, especially in terms of health care. (Education is headed the same way, as clearly reflected in a nation of sheep.) As we approach a social tipping point, capital being sucked out of the economy by these crooked corporate interests will only exaserbate the problems we face. The American Dream is financial, not ethical. You are a tool, even if you can’t admit it.

So you ride the insurance train. See where it takes you. Social responsibility isn’t about screwing your fellow man out of all the money you can get. Notice how the media only tells stories about wealth? Notice how the media are owned by Disney/Viacom and General Electric? Notice how insurance companies are involved in media ownership?

Every single person who can go off on a thru hike has either a) endured a lifetime working inside the system amassing money or b) hasn’t yet been locked into the lifestyle of servitude or c) has abandoned the endless rat race for more evolved world views. Hiking the AT is an act of social deviance. If everyone decided to hike the AT, society woud collapse! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Bad credit is the ultimate nightmare, right? Ironic that in a consumer society, the biggest handicap would be the loss of the ability to consume, ie. cars, houses.

The role of the government is to protect citizens. That protection includes health care (God help you all when the bird flu goes pandemic. See Katrina response.). Privatized insurance and contracting-out of government responsibilities is what has led us to the glorious situtions in Iraq, the Kartina dead zone and, eventually, the rest of the country. Corruption is rampant as are waste and fraud. And the dumb workers slave for every dollar of the money that simply disappears into the corporate pockets.

It’s a Ferengi society: It’s also what we escape from when we hike. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

zenger miller/Stephen Colbert

#7

Does it not strike anyone as odd that an injured person would expect someone else to pay his medical bills?

That’s precisely the mindset that the insurance culture enables. Think about it. Pay your own way.

Buck Hartford

#8

Has anyone noticed that socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried? Our first attempt was the Jamestown, VA experiment. “When the majority can vote itself government support, it is doomed to fail.” Society is made up of producers and users, we just have to decide which we will be.

Charles Lindburg after Germany’s invasion of Poland came out supporting Hitler. Prime Minister Chamberland signed a peace aggreement with Germany. Claiming that Germany was no threat to Europe. The ink was not dry before Hitler invaded Belgium and then turned on France (they surrendered in 3 days!). Our honorable statesman claimed that Japan was no threat, Germany was no threat, turned away the Jews because there were no atrocities.

Before we socialize or pass judgement on war, study your history. Don’t just except what you had to read to pass a test, but study history and learn the mistakes of the past.

I just wished ignorance was painful.

Papa Smurf

#9

Zenger must like to conform and stand in these government run hospital lines that he wants to create. Without insurance people would have thousands upon thousands of dollars in debt for the treatments that they can’t afford to pay. Hospitals would go out of business and Sen. Clinton would advocate that government pay for and run hospitals life would be great. Oh and when you have a medical problem you can wait in line just like my family in N.O. after katrina. Get a life and a brain :cheers
Keytone GAME 04

Keytone

#10

So, Zenger Miller believes the doctors and hospitals are paid too much? Good idea, let’s all make the same amount of money in a socialist society. I want a Dr. treating me when he’s making the annual salary that of a janitor. I’m not sure exactly how health insurance is a pyramid scheme. It doesn’t follow the qualifications for one. Health insurance companies on average pay out $.80-$.90 per $1.00 out on claims.

Using Zenger Miller’s philosophy on social responsibility one could assume you could hike the AT and expect to stay free at hostels, consume other hiker’s food and take whatever gear you needed from others. Hey, it’s not his fault he doesn’t have enough money to pay for anything, it’s the responsibility of society.

guru

#11

Put 'em up and knock 'em down.
Survival of the fittest, that’s what I say.
Stay out of my way or you’ll taste the butt of my boot, wealkings!

Perhaps if doctors and janitors were paid equally well, we wouldn’t have to worry about incompetent people going into medicine for the money. The insurance industry is creating an environment wherein doctors can’t afford to practice because of malpractice INSURANCE rates. People are going without health care because they cannot afford INSURANCE rates.

As for the poor dumb suckers in N.O., I hope they don’t expect any government help anytime soon – it ain’t coming. You’re on you own. It’s life in Pottersville for you.
http://haveskunk.blogspot.com/

zenger miller/Stephen Colbert

#12

Where has socialism worked? Zenger, where has it worked? All of the social experiments in Europe are now having significant problems. Most are taxed up to 70% of their income. The state of TN has more CAT Scans than all of Europe. There is no elective surgery. A friend of mine is married to a lady from France and her brother came to the US to have reconstructive knee surgery and paid cash. He had been on a waiting list for 3 years!!! He was on crutches for the last 2 years. It took him 1 week in the US to get the surgery!!!

N.O.? When has the government provided all these millions for tornado victims or earthquake victims? N.O. is another government boondoggle. A bottomles pit. No mater how much money you throw at NO it will be in the same sad shape. The most corrupt city in America. Remember Hughie Long? The ciy is 12 feet below sea level. Turn it into a large national landfill. I will take probably a 100 years of NY trash to build it above the flood level.

Look at the failed government programs. Housing projects, indian reservations, welfare, Johnson’s War on Poverty. Trillions of dollars enough to give everyone of these so called “poor dumb suckers” a million dollars and where are they? In the same place they started.

Too bad ignorance isn’t painful.

Papa Smurf

#13

I never claimed that socialism was the answer, you inferred that from what I said and then proceeded to argue against it. THAT is a straw man argument. The wingnut right-wing commentators are masterful at such rhetorical diversions.

OK, Smurf, so you got the rush limbaugh socialism talking points memo. Everybody should be free to die indigent and without medical care, I get it. You sound like a person with a sense of entitlement and comfort, a retiree, perhaps?

The EU was set up to provide a unified social/economic entity. It works for them. Present-day Europe is the result of American intervention after World War II. I might note that the Europeans are way ahead of Americans when it comes to social systems, but that the creep of right-wing petit fascists is working against the interests of social development across the globe. Oligarchy is rising.

The first act of the W. white house was to pay out tax ‘rebates’ to all of us who paid taxes, I got money from the government for nothing. I love republican socialism. Actually, captialism and socialism are not mutually exclusive, except in your bi-polar mind. The truth is that most functional governments are fusions of the two.

Notice how your french friend paid CASH for medical care and insurance wasn’t involved.

Notice how contractors are getting paid for N.O. work, but the work isn’t getting done. The people of N.O. aren’t getting squat, it’s going to the crony contractors.

Notice how the failure of government is the failure of men, not of institutions. I suppose there are more people in TN that need CAT scans than there are in Europe: check the number of CAT scans in TN against the marketing of CAT machines in that state and you’ll see a relationship.

Washington is now the most corrupt city in the country.

But anyway, I was talking about insurance for hiking. Don’t bother. If you can afford to hike, you can afford to pay for the consequences of your actions, just like in everyday life. But as in all parts of the (financial, not ethical) American Dream, those with the most money get the best care. The free market cannot look after everyone equally, because we are all born at different levels of financial functionality.

Are federal student loans a socialist ploy? Are free vaccinations to school children a socialist ploy? Is flouride in drinking water a socialist ploy? Is splitting the cost of a room at a trailside motel a socialist ploy?

All I need to look at to see a failed government program is the entire agenda of the present power structure. Permanent war abroad and disassembly of the social safety nets here at home. Rome fell by the same methods: attacked by barbarians, exorbitant spending on defense, neglect of internal infrastructure. And you bitch about socialism, sawing away at the branch that holds you safely above it all.

Linberg and Hitler? Smurf, get a grip dude! Perhaps you’d prefer a more fundamentalist form of government?

And yes, when an entire group pays for the misfortune of a few because they cannot pay, that is socialism. It’s also called INSURANCE, which is also called MARKET SOCIALISM.

If ignorance were painful, most of us would be morphine addicts.

zenger miller/Stephen Colbert

#14

Where do you stop with “everybody has a right to…”. If you keep adding to the list where does it stop. Next it will be everybody has a right to a car, a house, internet, cable TV, 6 week vacation, $65 an hour wage, a large plasma screen, a chicken in every pot and car in every garage.

I have seen what happens to socialized programs where the government provides all of your essential needs. Visit an indian reservation or a government housing project. You will see generations of families continuing to receive their “essential needs.” I’ve volunteered in these areas and have seen the plight of these people and it is a sad, sad story. They stand in lines and ask you to give them more of what we “owe them.” I don’t owe them anything. I choose to help because I want to. We have put in schools to teach trades and job skills and they say “why should I go to work when I can get everything I need and stay at home?” That is hard question to answer. You can say “dignity” and they will laugh at you.

Over the years I have done a significant amount of social research (I own a research company, that I started from scratch with the money I earned working two jobs and saving it). I have done many research projects in areas called pockets of poverty (like certain areas of New Orleans) and what you find are people who are second and third generations with an entitlement mindset. The problem is these groups continue to increase as a percent of the population no matter how much money we throw at them.

You need to read the works of James. W. Prothro. He and Matthews provide the most elaborate and useful typology of the orientation of welfare and individual material advances. His works are very highly accepted in Sociology and public policy research.

“A man can learn to say horse in seven languages and buy a cow and ride it.”

Papa Smurf

#15

OK. Screw the poor, they don’t deserve help. Let social darwinism run to its natural conclusion and just hope you don’t live nearby to them when that happens. I assume you don’t live near those subjects of your research in pockets of poverty.

So, how do you explain the attitude of entitlement among middle and upper class Americans?

Tax breaks for the rich ARE simply market socialism, as is insurance, wherein the group provides for the few unfortunates because they cannot provide for themselves. Socialism isn’t just a poor thing, you know. When the rich give each other a hand by writing legislation that favors their own, it’s OK, but when society helps the poor, it’s wrong? Give me a break.

Most Americans feel they have a right to certain things and rightly so. This country was founded on the fundamental right of every citizen to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Historically, there have been groups in power who haven’t felt these rights apply equally to the poor, to the black, to immigrants, or even to women. You write, "The problem in these groups … " Why do you divide human beings into such groups? Are you only talking about the poor? Or just about poor people with brown skin? Are you saying they are lazy? Dumb? Where does your point lead? I’ll bet if you took one of the children of one of those groups home and took responsibility for his upbringing, you wouldn’t feel the same. Open your eyes to the artificial social partitions that are a direct result of YOUR OWN sense of entitlement.

It’s all socialism in the end. When you die, others have to bury your ass and dispose of your stuff (or deposit it in the bank). The myth of pristine capitalism is alive in the minds of those who have enough to feed themselves and their families and is perpetuated by the popular media.

Re: Prothro et al. We see on the news every day how well sociological theory is handling issues like poverty, war, genocide, health care, greed and the poisonous sense of entitlement that infects our culture. The theorists continue to extract sunshine from cucumbers while people die.

Hike without insurance, get hurt, and you’ll get the care you need, regardless. Make society and government serve its purpose: provide for the common welfare.

“Reading a book makes an intellectual of an ass, once again.”

zenger miller/Stephen Colbert

#16

Yes, I live next to one of these projects. I am a registered (Dawes List) native american. I am one of those minorities. I could have had a free ride to college but I chose to work 2 jobs during school and 3 during the summer months. I had, counting class time, 108 hours scheduled every week while going to school. I have a degree in math and physics. I’ve worked at the National Lab. in Oak Ridge as a research scientist. I chose to go back to school to help people. The work that I have done has been of benefit. I was the first ever in my family to get a college degree. The chain has been broken. All four of my children have degrees and so do their spouses. I did it with out the help of the government. My father (unlike his family) did not take a dime from the government to raise 8 children. He wanted something better for his family. It is easy to pontificate about an unjust world and feel good because you have done something (pontificate and “feel their pain”) but it will never solve the ills of our society. It will only happen when individuals take responsibility for their lives. Show me an experiment of government intrevention in society that worked. There are none.

I’ve walked the walk.

Tax breaks? Last year I paid 63% of my income to some kind of tax. Property, business, individual, workman’s comp (I have to pay, but I can’t draw?!)sales tax, income tax, I pay 5 different business taxes, city tax, county tax, waste disposal tax, gas tax, and the list goes on. Where is the break?

I’ve thru hiked the AT and I paid my way. I didn’t do it on the backs of other individuals. No body owes me insurance. The line worker in some factory, the man who rides the garbage truck, the checkout lady at the grocery or the senior citizen working in fast food to supplement his retirement shouldn’t have to pay for my “entitlements” or my bill at some emergency room. If you can’t pay your way, either save your money, work two jobs, or stay at home and not expect me or any other taxpayer to pick up the tab because you think you are entitled.

Papa Smurf

#17

Yes, that’s very expressive of the “I got mine, so what’s the problem?” attitude. Typical crazy genius on the barstool tpe of thing. Not that your family’s distance from aject poverty has been a function of time, of generations. Yes, you can pay. What of those who can’t pay? So you mean that poor people have no right to hiking the AT? By extension, poor people have no right to anything they cannot afford, including freedom, free speech, or mercedes benz automobiles. In for a penny, in for a pound, brother. Or would a mix of socialism and capitalism work better? I think it would. How about evolved non-bi-polar government policies?

Those taxes you pay buy your kids’ education, fire and police service, libraries, roads and your way of life. Pay your taxes happily.

Seems like working so hard sews the seeds of resentment toward those who are struggling and who haven’t got “theirs” yet. Food for thought.

As for the native american angle, we’re all Americans here.

zenger miller/Stephen Colbert

#18

I’ll be happy about paying my taxes when you buy your own insurance.

The question is again, what socialized programs have worked? What Socialist government has worked? It should be obvious the experiment has failed and failed miserably. Go back and read about the Jamestown experiment in 1607. They came to this country to set up a glass industry to produce glass from the sand found in the James River (which you cross on the AT). It was set up as equal work equal pay. Everyone sharing the bounty and work load with no ownership of property or land. The ideal socialist government. After the first winter, it became evident no one worked. There was no incentive to produce if each received equal food and shelter. Thus, half starved because they wouldn’t tend the gardens or build adequate shelter. Bradford then took matters into his own hand and desolved the compact and divided the land and told them they were on their own. If they wanted to eat they had to grow their own food. They prospered after the change. Russia attempted it, look what happened.

I have no problem with charity. But don’t force me to be charitable. I have spent time with young men in their twenties attempting to teach them a trade and they have produced 3 or 4 children and never married, have never provided childcare, and never worked a day because they mooch off of the girls that get their checks. They should be put in prison for raping society.

Over 51% of Americans today draw some type of government entitlement income. 51%. That is outrageous.

Working hard doesn’t sew seeds of resentment, it indicates to me that the a large percent of that 51% want someone else to work for them. They want them to tend to the garden and mend the roof while they hike.

The native american is not an angle, as I said I’ve walked the walk. There are so many that have some idealic thought we should all hold hands and sing Kum ba ya around the campfire and we can all get along. The harsh reality is the government’s idea of solving social problems is to put people on some entitlement program. When in essence it only places them on the reservation. These reservations can be in Oklahoma or housing projects in Nashville, TN.

It is just like the saying you hear on the trail, “NO RAIN, NO PAIN, NO MAINE.” Without sacrifice, there is no victory in any of our lives.

No, if you can’t afford to go on a thru hike, don’t go!

Papa Smurf