Misc - Appalachian Trail

imported
#1

I have been reading these topics for the past year and have picked up some good pointers for my future thru hike. I’m sure a lot of less experienced people have also. My problem with the site is that when anyone asks a question it is always answered by only half a dozen so called experts. Some of the advice has been downright dangerous and I find it hard to believe that some of these people have much experience in outdoor survival, so be careful on whose and what advice you take. Please refer to some good books at the library or your book store. One of the most overlooked items when people ask about health issues is the shelters themselves. All “the experts” talk about water and personal hygene but in my opinion a crowded shelter with everyones wet clothing hanging around and people relieving themselves in bottles is the most dangerous health issue. Do the trail. Have a great time and meet new people. I will be the guy who stops by the shelter, get my water and some conversation and move down the trail a mile or so to pitch my tent. No ticks, no mice and no human urine. Just had to add my two cents worth. I know I’ll tee some people off. This is a great site, I just hate to see it dominated be a few self proclaimed experts. I am not an expert, just a 20 year military veteran with some survival and medical training.

Roger

#2

I’m not trying to start any kind of arguement, because i do think you make a very good point. When reading these posts, it’s important to remember these are just the opinions of regular people like you and me. Sure, some of the people may be more experienced, and even perhaps VERY experienced, but not everyone will be…so be sure to do more research elsewhere. However, Roger, has anyone proclaimed themself an expert, or are you just jumping to a conclusion that they think themselves to be one?

C-Giddy

#3

Before this goes to where we all know its going, this is a one dimensional media. If we were all sitting around the fire hashing it out the info would have a lot more contrast…and go a lot faster. Most of what we post if from first hand experience. Yeah, it’s stupid to stand on a rock in thunderstorm. I have a pic of me doing that. Shelters are funky, really funky. But things that happen on a long trail…happen. Are they out of the norm for hygiene, practicality, sanity?, yup. Anyone that hikes a long trail has to be nuts. In many cases the scientific norm is so far off base of what really happens and can happen that a new view on what is correct often takes place.
Some folk don’t ever filter water and live to tell about it. I know a friend that did that on the AT, even the brown beaver water in Maine. Would I?, oh hell no. That’s something that a person new to hiking SHOULD NOT TRY. Knowing where to get fresh water from without filtering and have a 90% good chance of not getting crud takes a little practice and some smarts how to do it. Our advice here is hopefully taken as face value.

Bushwhack

#4

I didn’t plan to go any further with this but you ask a legitimate question. The answer is NO. I agree that there is s lot of experience out there. There are just the couple of regulars that give some questionable advice and write and act as though their word is gospel. I also do not want to start or get in an argument and apologize to those that realy do know what they are talking about and just want to help their fellow hikers. I have learned a lot from this forum.

Roger

#5

that makes enough sense to me. I don’t see any reason why this post needs to go any further.

C-Giddy

#6

I don’t think you get many people on here asking life or death questions. Most folks want to know the difference between a tent and tarp, how many litres per minute a Hiker Filter will pump, whether moleskin is more effective than duct tape, where to do a maildrop etc etc. This is definately not the place I would ask “So, If I badly twist my ankle, way off the trail, what do I do?”

Everyone makes mistakes and learns from the experience, even the humble folk on trailforums (including my humble self) are prone to giving out questionable advice now and again. Everyone does their own thang. I agree that most posts are probably taken at face value. The only way to truly find the answers to ones questions is to go out and make the mistakes, that’s how we all do it, right?

Ross:cheers

Ross

#7

I just write the things I have experienced and the way they worked or didnt for me. As for the urine,its not as bad as you might think. Most of the people hiking respect there fellow hikers. As in any social arena, its the few that screw up for the rest. But to me, being in the shelters at times and experiencing the people and thier particular ways along with the conversation was a part of the hike that Im glad I didnt chose to miss out on.

Virginian

#8

“This is a great site, I just hate to see it dominated be a few self proclaimed experts. I am not an expert, just a 20 year military veteran with some survival and medical training.”

Roger - I agree that this is a great site, that pissing in bottles is nasty, and that there aren’t a lot of people who regularally participate here. I’m not trying to start a flame war here, but I do take issue with a few items in your post. First; getting sick and dying out in the woods isn’t really a threat on the AT, getting hypothermia can be. In light of that, hanging clothes to dry in shelters makes a little sense doesn’t it? Second; there are just as many (if not more) ticks in the woods as there are in shelters. Third; who’s calling themself an expert? A lot of the posters here could be considered experts, but I don’t recall anyone claiming to be one. IMHO, it is up to the individual to decide what is right for them, not some public forum. Finally; if you have not agreed with postings in the past, why is this your first post (at least that I could find?) Sorry about continuing this thread, but it bugs me when a person complains about a resource that is freely given to them, especially one which they have not contributed to in a positive manner.

                         -S-

Skittles

#9

i wish i had found this place before i started my first thru hike. god would my pack have been light at the start.

I think people mostly understand that what most of us offer who type in is our personal perspective. some have perspective of successful thru hikers; some as repeat starters that are trying to get it right and learning each time we try; some are section hikers; some day hikers; some novices that want to learn. the whole thing that brings us together here is a passion for some type of hiking. We can laugh at stories of big boy falling down out of plum gap shelter onto his tuckus; cause i think everyone who’s been in that shelter probably imagines the same thing"if i have to sleep up there; i hope i don’t fall down" well; i did.

is all our advice solid? maybe not; especially not for the army. do i use a pee bottle myself? no. some nights i’ve kicked myself for not doing it when i’ve got out of my sleeping bag; trudged 200 feet away from the shelter cause the privy says “don’t pee in the privy”; found a tree and shivered to death while doing my natural thing. I tell you one thing though. My dad, who has Diabetes; wants to do the Shenendoahs this year or next. I’m gonna make sure that he carries a pee bottle. he’s up 2 or 3 times a night at home; cause of the disease. disgusting maybe; but if a pee bottle helps him get a good nights sleep so he can hike tommorrow; then good.

and the shelters aren’t as bad as you must be imagining. I spent a week up at the shelter 12 miles outside of hotsprings. or was it 5 days. something like that. Anyway; sure; there were a few critters. and it was a bit dirty. but there were no ticks; no centipedes; nothing disgusting. the shelters in the south; especially around georgia and TN and NC were a joy to stay in. you got to know so many new hikers. Everyone has stories; and everyone also misses people back home. we want to group together and laugh and show each other our toenails. if its warm enough and its been wet; everyone wants to dry out their clothes.

I admit. I’m shy. but somehow you realize its different outthere. OK; so I wasn’t streaking the camp everynight; but i didnt go hide out behind the shelter either to change after a week or two. and most people were like that too. Out of respect if i saw a female was getting ready to change; If we were talking; i’d turn my back or step around the corner. Most of the time they’d chastise me; but it was more about respect and stuff. stuff like you’d do for family.

I think I got way off topic here. lets see. Most people were courteous enough to not pee off the shelter platforms. most people did not pee in the middle of the trails that i noticed at least. I have to say; I was pretty appalled when my dog pooped right in the middle of the trail in the shenendoahs. she got a good talking too; and we went and buried it off the trail. after that; she always went off the trail. pretty smart she is; for a mutt :-).

lastly; about the water; everyone i met and saw was protective about water sources. we know they are the lifeblood of hikers. you treat them well; even if u are just getting a short fill. you dont want to find out u are the one that caused someone to get sick or caused a spring to dry up or something horrid. that comes with respect of the outdoors. and that; that is something u learn quickly as u hike. and that i think is why we are all out there. I hope we get to talk sometime Roger. Look for Big Boy in the shelters; cause that’s where i’ll be staying. its too difficult to teach new squirrels to play euchre every night LOL.

Big Boy

#10

I’ve yet to see anyone act or proclaim to be an expert at anthing on this site. None of us are. This site allows us to share our experiences with one another in a user-friendly environment. The kind folks who run Trail Forums have setup a media of which to exchange ideas, beliefs, gear questions easily… and for that I am greatful. This really helps those who are upcoming thru-hikers or perhaps those who just have questions about hiking or long-distance hiking in general. I know I had many awhile back, and I found many answers on here as well as other sites.

As for your statements, I have to agree that shelters are not the most cleanest places out there… but with your vast knowledge of medical background and 20 years in the military I’m quite suprised your’re even in here, or have learned anything from the posts.

Personally, I would like to see a posting where someone has claimed to be an expert or given advice that would case deadly harm.

BTW- there’s nothing wrong with people pissing in a bottle. I’m sure you’re well aware (with all your medical background) that urine is a sterile fluid. Why don’t we discuss how the great Dr’s of the old days use to taste urine to determine if somone was a diabetic… there’s new topic.

guru

#11

The great Albert Einstein with all his tremendous knowledge once said that he felt as if he were on a beach full of small peebles and every now and then he would pick up one of these pebbles of knowledge.

I have also heard it said that true knowledge exists only in those who admit how very little they know.

I learn as much or perhaps more than anyone, who posts or reads this forum, because I am a student of knowledge, of hiking and of many things.

I herewith proclaim that I know a little bit about a few things, but there is a whole universe of knowledge I do not possess. Just trying to get it one pebble at a time.

Anyone who proclaims themselves to be a real expert at anything is greatly deceiving themselves and perhaps has a faulty sense of their own self importance.

Appreciate all those who ask questions on this forum and those who attempt to answer them as best they can. Keep up the great work.

I’ll see you out there. I’ll be looking for peebles.

:cheers

Maintain

#12

Roger,
First off. In no way am I trying to get defensive. However, it is not the fault of the few on this site who regularly post. They should be commended for doing so. They can’t control the fact that very few actually give feedback here. I think its a shame that so many people use the internet as a huge source of info and knowledge, go out and hike to Maine or Georgia, and then never give anything back. I knew the problem existed, but it is made even clearer to me this year after I hiked. It baffles me that the AT could be peoples life for 6 months and that after they are done, boom, its over. They simply shut it out of thier lives and move on to the next thing. For me, it is something that will be part of me for the rest of my life. My experiences influence my values, and the decisions I make.
Sometimes info may come off as the end all absolute way, but I don;t think anyone intends it to. As BW says, most of the thru-hikers here have probably only hiked the Trail once, so there experience is the only reference point. Someone who never filtered water and never got sick might say there is absolutely no reason to treat water, and from their experience that would be right, but it may differ from person to person.
I urge all you 2004ers and dreamers out there to contribute to the site, before, during and most importantly after your hikes. The folks of the future need your info.

A-Train

#13

That you didn’t mention is when you get to New Jersey and stop by them trailside bars and the girls are real friendly and they got all night and don’t live far away but watch out, some got real bad clamp.:eek:

:x

Jumble Jowls aka Steve Hiker

#14

All the people who have answered my questions have been genuine, fair and a tad sarcastic in Bushwhack’s case, but informative… Big Boy freely gives of his experience…in the catagory of his experience…he is the authority. Heck Maintain hiked to Mars and back.

After years of gleaning from people’s experience, I have developed a simple rule, it goes something like “They give suggestions, I make the ultimate decisions and live with consequences, good or bad.” These guys are experts at the backpacking, field dressing of section hikers, and survival of the heart of your hike. I applaud them for the courtesy, joy, and free spirits to fill my mind with options and choices I may have never considered. I agree with Roger that a grain of salt should be used…a person’s own common sense is gonna dictate how the advice they get is applied.

In my case, everyone knows I am down to my last 2 brain cells and they battle over who takes lead and who gets the glory.

So congrates, all you Experts.My internet buds. I scrolled up the list again. I feel I know you, You folks are the best, give the best, and if I listened well and applied it right in the field, I will have the best along with my hike.

Thanks folks.

Roger, keep coming back, it works if you work it. hehehe

burn

#15

All “the experts” talk about water and personal hygene but in my opinion a crowded shelter with everyones wet clothing hanging around and people relieving themselves in bottles is the most dangerous health issue

I take umbridge {but ive nowhere to put it!}… wet clothes haning up to dry a health hazard? are we now breathing in mold and asbestos spores or something? peeing in bottles might be bad if I used the same bottle to carry my drinking water…

a lot of people offer advice… you gotta use your own head and weight it up. if it sounds off, dont follow it.

Bloody Cactus

#16

Listen to Grandma Gatewood.
The trail is more about people and yourself than about survival.

You’ll never be healthier than your time on the AT. No indoor dust mite and mold infected recirculated air to breathe with 50 other people who all come to work sick from their kids who go to daycare or school. No bad flourescent lighting that leaves your eyes wide open and strained by day’s end from looking at a computer screen. No dry skin. Natural humidity that lubricates your body and hair. A 3 sided wood shelter isn’t harboring any of those things. We could all use some more natural “dirt” than the antiseptic society we live in, INDOORS. That’s where health issues lurk. Carpel tunnel? Humans weren’t designed to sit on their asses all day in one position. Our bodies are supposed to move. I’ll never feel as good as I did when I was hiking.

Bluebearee

#17

You are sooo right Bluebearee. No joke, I’d rather eat off any shelter floor than be within coughing distance of children or their parents. They are worse than rats and lice combined for spreading disease.

Blue Jay

#18

I have to agree with the last two posts. In a shelter you are breathing outside air. With the exception of a few isolated cases of Hanta Virus a few years ago I haven’t heard of anyone picking up any airborne diseases in shelters. Now water around shelters is another story but I think this site has beat to death the need to treat or filter.

Big B

#19

This might be the most civil message board I have ever read. I’m fairly new to this board…I look in to get advice now and then. Roger, I hate sleeping in the shelters and always stay in my tent. Mainly because of the reasons you mentioned. But, I have never felt that vibe here of “do it this way or don’t do it at all.” It is just advice or an opinion. Always take it with a grain of salt…and tequila. First post! Talk at ya later.

reiddar

#20

I like these forums for the frank discussions about everything under the sun and I appreciate the regulars freely sharing their experiences. They really are experts in many ways.

I recently posted on another AT trail forum and my opinion was censored/deleted. Why? not because I was rude or flaming but because the owner of that site thought rubber tips should be on poles but I posted that I thought rubber tips were unnecessary and I felt it was safer to just use your poles. My point being this forum is great because you get many different points of view. It’s up to you to select the one that fits your mindset.

I also agree with BlueBearee’s post.

HotFoot