Pepsi stoves and White gas

imported
#1

I tested burning White gas in a pepsi can stove and
was able to boil water a little quicker than with
denatured alcolol. This allows for an alternative in
the event that you can not resupply your alcohol,
however, there are several reasons why this should be
a last resort. First, the flame produced was about a
foot high - very dangerous in close quarters or near
flamable substances. Second, large amounts of sute
was produced and it took me 20 minutes to wipe it off
of the pot, stove and wind shield ( a lot more sute
than Isopropyle Alcohol, too! ). Third, some of the
sute ended up in the water in the pot, yuck! Fourth,
because it burns so much hotter it scorched the wood
the stove was on. Fifth, all that sute smells real
bad. I also proved that White gas will not melt a
pepsi can stove as I was told when I was on the trail.
I would only use white gas after exhausting all other
fuel options. I would also recommend running your own
test before deciding that this is an exceptable form
of fuel. I plan on testing other substances that might
be found at small stores, in the future. I am also
testing certain tree root resins as an alternative
fuel, but will have to wait till the sap begins to run
with warmer weather. - Best of luck!

Rick The Lone Wolf

#2

no offense intended , but, i would never ever use gasoline (white gas) in a beer can stove… 7 drops of gasoline in vapor form(conditions perfect) = 1 stick of dynamite- if i remember my childhood science classes correctly.

all your doing is risking everyones safety who is around you… not to mention the risk of starting a shelter or forrest fire.

if you cant find denatured alcohol which is #1 IMO, gasoline antifreeze named "HEET " “yellow bottle” works great, and can be found at most mini-marts,super markets or gas stations along the trail for about $1.25 a bottle

with that said i use a sealed and pressurized beer can stove with a tuna can bottom as a pre-heat base… and 1/2" wire mesh 5x20 squares bent in a circle as a pot stand.

Good Luck and stay safe!
freightTrain

FreightTrain

#3

no offense intended , but, i would never ever use gasoline (white gas) in a beer can stove… 7 drops of gasoline in vapor form(conditions perfect) = 1 stick of dynamite- if i remember my childhood science classes correctly.

all your doing is risking everyones safety who is around you… not to mention the risk of starting a shelter or forrest fire.

if you cant find denatured alcohol which is #1 IMO, gasoline antifreeze named "HEET " “yellow bottle” works great, and can be found at most mini-marts,super markets or gas stations along the trail for about $1.25 a bottle

with that said i use a sealed and pressurized beer can stove with a tuna can bottom as a pre-heat base… and 1/2" wire mesh 5x20 squares bent in a circle as a pot stand.

Good Luck and stay safe!
freightTrain :boy :pimp

FreightTrain

#4

Rick,
Soot.
Bum

damascus bum

#5

Play with fire and you’ll get burned :wink: White gas in an alcohol stove sounds a bit dangerous to me, and quite a bit of a hassle with all that soot. I don’t really understand the point of doing it, since it’s so easy to find alcohol (or a microwave) in civilization. If you’re out in the woods and run out of alcohol, but can find white gas, you probably have found someone who has a white gas stove that you could borrow. Another alternative would be to light a campfire (possibly with the help of some white gas) and cook on that. A quarter cup of gasoline is roughly equivalent to a stick of dynamite in terms of energy released when burned ( http://www.westga.edu/~chem/courses/chem1211d/lecture/Chapter6/tsld007.htm .) That’s a fairly irrelevant comparision though, a stick of dynamite contains about 504 Calories, but two glazed Krispy Kreme apple cinnamon donuts contain 560 Calories…

Skittles

#6

Fire in the hole!

Zaphod

#7

Seems that someone might be able to design a stove that used the heat to pressurize the white gas, similar to the alcohol stove, but that uses less fuel than the alcohol stove. Would probably require some serious redesigning, but if achieved for near the same weight as the pepsi stove, but using 1/2 or less fuel to boil, it would be a HUGE winner…

Just a million dollar idea tossed out there for someone else to make money on…

Gravity Man

Gravity man

#8

Short answer: Using any fuel in a stove not designed for that fuel is a very bad idea.

Longer answer: White gas “can form flammable mixtures with air and flash at room temperature. Explosion hazard in fire situations. Vapor heavier than air and may travel considerable distance to a source of ignition and flash back.” Water is not recommended as an extinguishing agent for this fuel since the fuel will not mix with water, so using water on burning fuel may result in spreading the fire. It has a fire rating of 4 - Extreme Hazard. It has a flash point less than 0 degrees F, its explosion limits (the concentration of vapor in air needed to cause an explosion) are, according the the Coleman Co., “not available”. Executive summary: Dangerous stuff. Don’t play with it, it could blow up.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf

Ethanol is relatively benign by comparison. It has a fire rating of 3 - Hazardous, it mixes with water so water is an excellent extinguishing agent, has a flash point of 62F, and a lower explosion limit of 3.3% by volume, a condition which is not likely to happen outdoors. Executive summary: Handle it with care, it burns, but it won’t blow up.
http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf

If you only have an alcohol stove, are out of alc and only have gas, then build a wood fire.

Dances with Mice

#9

And you don’t even have to buy a spacesuit.:eek:

Moondog

#10

This is a Darwin Award Winner to be…

http://darwinawards.com/cgi-bin/frames.cgi?/main.shtml

NEVER use gas in an alcohol stove!

StoveStomper

#11

But is the few ounces you save with a Pepsi stove really worth the explosive potential of screwing it up? I’m just as crazy as the next guy when it comes to shaving weight, but food is a necessity, and hot food is a comfort, so the weight my Pocket Rocket and small fuel canister takes in my pack is just fine to me. Drill out your toothbrush for God’s sake…

Thunder

#12

It would be real interesting to see dinner heated with a stick of dynamite.

Allen

#13

Never, EVER use gas(white or otherwise) in a stove not designed to use it. It can burn faster than the pressure
can push it out of the holes, and you create a bomb.
In my old Svea white gas stove there is a leather plenum
which prevents blow-back and explosion, just below the
needle/adjusment valve.

The calories in a Doughnut and the calories measured in a
stick of dynamite are NOT to the same scale. Also the
release of energy is alot faster in TNT. Booom.

This idea is a serious safety hazard.

Scamp

Scamp

#14

I am well aware of the explosive power of white gas and I
would only use it as a last resort. Many stores ran out of
alcohol (no denatured, no heet, no isoprople, no ethyl and no turpins) in 2003. With hundreds of hikers resupplying
at the same time, many stores just run out. There are a
number of places along the trail where campfires are not
allowed. In 2003 it rained (in June) 22 days straight and
there was nothing dry to burn (people even tried to get
fires going with white gas and failed). I own several
white gas stoves which I use on weekend trips and I would
rank them only slightly less dangerous than gas in a pepsi
can stove. My Optimus 8R sends a one foot flame into the
air initially before the flame stabalizes. If used with
caution, the danger of a substantial explosion is very low,
more likely would be a fire from spillage, wind or near by
combustables (there is a small explosion whenever you light any fuel). For an explosion to occur would require the gas
to vaporize first. If you poor in a half ounce and light
it immediately your safe (note: the rate of vaporization is temperature and pressure driven. so on a very hot day it
will vaporize more quickly). You can not compare dynamite
and liquid fuels. There are many factors that effect the
explosive capacity of any exothermics. The reaction times
depend on the chemical make up of the substance, The temperature at which the reaction becomes exothermic, the
pressure (or how tightly packed) the substance is, The
oxidizer, the end by product of the reaction, catalysts, the
availability of the oxidizer and many other factors. For
example if you take what is essentially a combination of
nitric acid and glycerine you get nitroglycerine (and no I
won’t give you the formula, because this will get you a
darwin award). Even a slight bump will touch of a rapid
exothrermic reaction. Those Krispy Kreme donuts, on the
other hand, when converted to Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP)
may take hours for the mitochondria to release the
equivalent energy through oxidative phosphoralation. There
is no comparison between the 2 reactions. I’m not saying
white gas is not dangerous, but with caution it can be used safely. I have given up on trying to create a pressurerized
Pepsi can stove (which could explode) because of the
dangers. Sorry about the bad spelling, but despite several college degrees, I still spell phonetically. The soot is a
problem fom a number of fuels and makes them undesirable to
use, but if its all you can find at a resupply, you either
use it or due without. As for the Darwin awards, I haven’t
qualified yet, despite experimenting and build my own
liquid fuel rockets as a kid, trying my hand at genetically
altering bacteria in my teens, trying to invent a microwave
snow remover and many others dangerous and failed attempts.
The darwin awards are for the removal of bad genes, but we
would all be living in caves if someone did not try new
things.

Rick The Lone Wolf

#15

And what’s wrong with caves?

N. Andrew Tahl

#16

Good question. Let’s ask Binn Laden and Saddam.

Twinky

#17

Actually, the can stoves aren’t unreasonably dangerous if you use the right fuel (as others say above) -and the weight difference in respect to your stove is much more than a toothbrush handle (which is already gone anyway ;). I understand the reluctance to use one; I used used one very similar to yours on the whole AT, always looking at the weirdos cooking out of cans. But then my buddy 204 gave me one to try and I’m never going back unless serious winter travel or cooking for lots of people. I’m not saying one is better then the other (although cans are significantly lighter and smaller), but that the can stoves, used with minimal care and the right fuel, are not hazardous -and I suggest you try one out and then make your decision. It’s not about being “hardcore”, it’s about making informed decisions to not carry useless additional weight. It just makes hiking easier.:cheers

Tha Wookie

#18

I can’t believe it’s been five months since I finished my hike, and I’m still ready entries from Rick the Lone Wolf. :bawling

Feral

#19

i hear ya feral!
I will quote a register entry from Lost Mtn. Shelter:
‘Fantastic. Now I’m on fire.’ sorry, can’t remember who wrote it.:girl

roadie

#20

As others have said, NO! Trail Slug , who makes and ships these stoves for free and from whom I got my pepsi can stove, said in the instructions that he had heard that white gas would cause the stove to explode. I used HEET, mentioned earlier, and it works great!! Trail Slug said that was the best fuel to use.

Mini-Mosey