Well kids, they’ve screwn us again…
The fee demo program is now permanent.
Does this mean we’ll all have to buy the “American the Beautiful” pass to hike the PCT or CDT? Pay the fee use BLM and NFS lands? Is the AT in their sights next?
www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/dec2004-jan2005/silverbullets.htm
Dr. Curly Tail
this effects us all, so go read it. The Republicans have begun the commercialization of our “public” lands. My professor told me about this, but I wouldn’t listen!
“Ralph Regula is responsible for the first tax increase of the Bush administration. He and Senator Stevens have sold out America’s heritage of public lands for the price of a road.”
Tha Wookie
The “American the Beautiful” passes will cost between $85 and $100 per year, beginning in Fiscal Year 2005.
In addition, the local authorities will be encouraged to contract-out the fee-enforcement functions, meaning rent-a-cops out in the woods asking to see your permits.
These under-the-radar legislative tricks are becoming more and more brazen. These guys–your trusted, elected politicians, the ones with the “mandate”–have got to make sure the cash-collection matrix is spread across every square inch of the land.
I wonder what Stevens, from Alaska, and Regula, from Ohio (a state with no BLM land) have to gain out of this bad law? Follow the money: I would immediately suspect contracts. It seems to be the legal robbery de jour for this group of men. It’s also hard to fathom the labyrinth of twisted politics that would make this seem like a good idea…
How do things like this happen?
People probably just think, “Well, it doesn’t effect ME.”
(And please, please, hikers, don’t lecture me about how SOMEONE has to pay the fees to maintain the lands for recreational use. We all pay taxes: some of us less than others, usually inversely proportional to income. It was Bush the Elder who said, “Read my lips, no new taxes!” then raised them. This is just another back door-tax increase. Time to get on the horn, start writing letters and kill this thing. Fee Demo was dead, dead, dead because it was so unpopular before Regula slipped it into this omnibus bill.)
Tyger
**** the system! Down with government! This whole country clearly sucks! Let us impose a state of anachary so we all can do whatever we want, when we want it.
I don’t wear deodorant…
I don’t have a job…
I bitch about everything, instead of doing something…
And, tye-dye is my favoite friggin’ color…
I am a hippie and proud!
Rowboat
Fees, fees, everywhere fees.
Want to go sit on a rock? FEE-TAX!
Want to buy a tie-dye? TAX-FEE!
No matter what your political persuasion: demo, repub, anarchist, nihilist, suburban yuppie, urban punk, rural xenophobe, YOU WILL ALL PAY THE FEE.
Because it’s the law. :lol
See you out there. Feel the love.:cheers
Tyger
Not that I don’t trust the opinions of a pot-smoking hippie, but read up on the USDA Forest Service page before you judge.
http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/feedemo/index.shtml
And as Rowboat so eloquently put it in an earlier post, “obviously we are all victims of this democratic society”…Boy is he right, I know that my life as an free American sure sucks.
I promise you it won’t be the end of the world if we have to pay a fee to use our National land. Now it’ll just cost a little more for you to drive out to public land and smoke the reefer.
Live free and shower!!!
Officer Taco
So are you a real officer yet? Or just still impersonating?
You must have been stoned when you wrote that post, because none of it covers this current issue.
Tha Wookie
Hippie? newp. Sorry Tockie, I don’t smoke, and don’t bother those who choose to, either. Not my business. HYOH.
But ask me to pay a fee to use PUBLIC lands, for which I’ve already paid with my taxes, I get stirred. This isn’t park land we’re talking about, this is national forest and open range land. Not much of that in Michigan, is there.
But this is interesting: http://www.canyoncountryzephyr.com/june-july2004/sucks.htm
Can’t we all just get along?
:bawling
Tyger
I believe that Regulas district has one of the larger manufacturers of recreation vehicles. The authors of this legislation is the American Recreation Coalition which consists of RV manufacturers, Campground lobbyists and Disney.
Big B
Interesting. If you really want a surprise, Google “REI” and “American Recreation Coalition.”
doh. 
Tyger
“governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles”
FIGHT THE POWER!!!
Peace my brothers and sisters!
T.J.
Thomas Jefferson
Well, I did go read it, and it says no fees for walk/hike through. No fees for parking in an overlook, no fees for general access, no fees for areas with low or no services, etc. etc.
Fees for developed campgrounds, boat ramps, day-use areas, etc.
Or you could go read it yourself.
We’ve had parking fees in the Chattahoochee National Forest for a while. It does affect you on a shorter hike. $2 day.
samfsmith
As much as all this goes…
With major corporations hiding hundreds of billions (yes, with a B) overseas, budget shortfalls, wars (lets not get on an argument on THAT topic), MASSIVE, and I mean MASSIVE medicare and social security problems, that fact is that monies just are not sitting there to put into every single possible need out there…period. That is not a republican issue, not a democratic issue, not a NORML issue, not anything. That is fact. PERIOD.
And another simple fact, non-partisan. It costs money, to keep up the roads, fences, regulation, park personal, rangers, etc etc etc etc etc etc. If it means we all have to pay $2 a day while in the parks, to gaurantee servies like somebody emptying the dumpsters at roadsides, keeping park rangers on duty, then so be it.
Because, every single one of us, EVERY ONE OF US, has seen that not all people respect the outdoors we all love so much, and do wantonly and/or ignorantly damage and destroy our beloved national parks. And we have all seen the garbage dumpsters at roadsides, and hopefully used them if needed. And read posted signs about dangers ahead. Or looked over a beautiful overlook. Or driven on forest service roads to get to our trailheads. Or any number of other things that in the end, costs money to maintain.
So, instead of whining endlessly as many will, try volunteering on trail maintenance (every year, even local parks), hauling out trash, and a great big one, showing a bit more love and respect for the outdoors we love, and not doing the many things that do cause damage/destruction to the parks (yeah, I know everybody here is perfect, nobody here ever has done anything wrong), writing your congressperson, maybe, just for a quantum unit of time, putting your feet on the ground and looking at the facts of budgets, costs, reality, and seeing that although it might up the costs a little, costing a few dollars (literally) to be out there, it is just one more part of being a responsible outdoorsperson and doing your part.
OK, let the whining begin, somebody inevitably will here, how they are perfect and as Americans shouldn’t have to pay or do their own part, blah blah blah.
-xtn
PS A simple idea I used to do alot out west, when on dayhikes, and forced others hiking with me to do. On the way back to the car, I would give them a simple plastic grocery bag, and we filled them with garbage on the way out. I once went with a BLM park ranger out to Gypsum Cave outside Las Vegas and gave him a bag, telling him he would understand. We left with not only the two bags, but filled up two more we found out there, now he does the same thing to others. Total time it took to fill up four bags to haul out? About 5-10 minutes. Total effort? Minimal. Total compensation? Alot, the satisfaction of not only passing on the tradition to somebody else, but of cleaning up a sensitive environment (the cave has been closed for archeological reasons, as well as a possible chiropteran habitat).
airferret
Resources we need here at home are being wasted trying to convert all of Southwest Asia to our way of thinking.
That’s where the money is.
Trillions of dollars.
Think about it.:nerd
Tyger
You can whine and complain all you want, but at least we’ve got the trails and the National Parks. Yep, I pay lots of taxes too but we still live in the greatest country in the history of man. Love it or leave it! I think I’ll stay.
:cheers
leeki
sad sad news… Day Tripper and I just came out of the canyons near Capitol Reef to read this stuff… Well heading back into the 55 degree weather and look at the empty canyons and cliff dwellings…
I am surprised about some of the answers here… Sheep mentality…
Aswah
Aswah
Dissent does not bespeak disloyalty.
I spent half my life growing up overseas as part of a military family. I watched the cold war play out from Germany. We were the speed bump in the Fulda Gap. (You youngsters can google that…) I just spent four years working as an editor at Army Times, Washington, D.C., and have seen, up close and personal, what this train wreck of a military action is doing to our military. I have long-time close friends who are serving officers, senior NCOs, Rangers and in many other roles in this conflict. There are no better partiots than these people. They salute and go die–they don’t go hiking and whining about how they don’t like it when people don’t agree with their views.
I’m no tree-hugging hypocritical hysterical liberal, nor am I a right wing neoconservative industrialist/capitalist. Years of living in a military environment have given me a unique perspective and empathy for the men and women who are the instruments of policy–the ones getting blown to bits every day. Please forgive my enthusiasm and passion on this issue, but it is one close to my heart.
The ferret was right when he said this is not a democratic or republican issue.
The connection between standing at a vending machine in Utah and inserting two bucks for your day’s “America the Beautiful Pass” and spending billions of dollars in a stupid exercise of ongoing futile attempts to fulfill one idiot president’s ego is direct and is measured in wounded and killed kids as well as money. (Wounded figure is right around 9,000 now.) There were ALWAYS better, smarter, more effective ways of cleaning up the mess after Sept. 11, but this president has ignored the advice of his best advisors and tripped off on a personal crusade, disregarding all consequences.
The best middle-class anaolgy is this: Dad comes home and tells his kids they will have to go out and get jobs to pay for their school lunches because he’s spending that money on internet pornography.
It’s a matter of priorities.
Spending money in Southwest Asia and imposition of new fees and taxes here in the states ARE INTIMATELY CONNECTED. Directly linked, actually.
And yes, God Bless America. Go live overseas, get some perspective and protect your country from these moronic policies.
Tyger
I hope samfsmith is right that no fees are proposed for thru-hikes. Or section hikes, for that matter. Cause if i’m out in the woods in the middle of nowhere smoking a bowl with my head in another dimension and some WalMart Rent-A-Cop comes up demanding to see my fee receipt, i’m lible to blow his discount badge off to Jupiter with my pop gun.
:pimp
steve hiker
The fee demo program has always been about privatizing public lands. The orginal laws allowed the park service to charge additional fees for usage. It also started the parking fee in national forests and BLM lands. I don’t agree with the law since it amounts to double taxation for a public service. It also gives congress an excuse to cut the budget for the agencies. When was the last time you saw a back country ranger while hiking. They are few and far between because their isn’t any money. New roads are made and parking lots improved so that parking fees can be collected. Then their is the issue of private fee collection. Can you saw Aramark. They already have a monopoly in national parks. This law is a bad idea beacause it appears harmless but leads to greater cuts and protections of public lands. It also means you have to carry cash to the trail head or rick having your car towed or booted in the middle of nowhere. Wait till it happens to you than see if you still agree with the law.
Darth Pacman
ALCON,
Copy of the HR3283 Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act (Introduced in House)
SEC. 6. EXPANDED RECREATION FEE.
(a) FEE AUTHORIZED- The Secretary concerned may charge an expanded recreation fee, either in addition to a basic recreation fee or by itself, at Federal lands or waters under the jurisdiction of a Federal land management agency when the Secretary concerned determines that the visitor to those lands or waters–
(1) receives or is provided a direct service;
(2) uses a specific or specialized facility or equipment in association with the recreation activity;
(3) requires additional attention by staff, representatives or contractors of the Federal land management agency; or
(4) participates in an activity that involves more costs to the Federal land management agency than the costs associated with the basic recreation fee.
(b) LIMITATIONS ON FEES FOR CERTAIN PERSONS, ACTIVITIES, AND LOCATIONS- The Secretary concerned may not charge an expanded recreation fee with respect to any of the following:
(1) For general access to any Federal lands or waters under the jurisdiction of a Federal land management agency.
(2) For access to any of the following:
(A) A visitor center.
(B) A dispersed area with low or no investment.
© A scenic overlook.
(D) A basic, core interpretive program.
(E) A backcountry byway.
(F) A wayside.
(G) A drinking fountain.
(H) A restroom.
(I) An undeveloped parking area.
(J) an individual picnic table.
(3) For special attention or extra services necessary to meet the needs of individuals with disabilities.
(4) For any person engaged in a nonrecreational activity authorized under a valid permit issued under any other Act, including a valid grazing permit.
© FACILITIES AND SERVICES- In accordance with subsection (a), but subject to subsection (b), an expanded recreation fee may be charged for facilities and services, including any of the following:
(1) A developed campground.
(2) A developed boat ramp.
(3) A facility rental.
(4) An equipment rental.
(5) An enhanced interpretive program.
(6) A reservation service.
(7) A transportation service.
(8) A special amenity.
This seems to be the relevent section. My interpretation is that this will not affect thru-hikes as stated under SEC 6(b)(2)© and SEC 6(b)(2)(e) if there are any lawyer types out there who can bring credible illumination on this matter which will either confirm or refute my understanding I’d be appreciative.
Hike on :cheers
Tu
Tu