Sierra Snow Strategy

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#21

Much appreciated info. I will be plugged in for the next two weeks and then I am off. I have a feeling that it will do me NO good to worry too much about events yet to come. We will help eachother no matter what.

I am from northern NY and am used to the snow, but I am not used to the weight I might have to carry in that deep snow. Can some of you comment on your resupply through the Sierra? Were you forced to ration to squeeze more days out of your supply? I would really like to get to VVR without stopping, but I am such a tiny woman I will probably just sink with 13-14 days worth of food and no snowshoes. Also, what about the bear cans? I could never fit all my food for that section in just one. Did anyone notice a lack of bear activity because of the increased snow? Is it a mandate?

Thank you to all the 05ers. The 06ers need you!

NEMO

#22

if you want practical advice then dont use the bear canister. you wont be able to carry the food you will need to get to VVR in one anyway. they are extra wieght and take up alot of room in your pack. chances are you will get into toulumne when it is still shut. if you are worried about bears then hang your food from here.

looking back i had to ration food severely. i ate 3000 calories each day when i should have eaten 7000. i lost 2lbs of wieght everyday for 7 days. 3lbs of extra food and extra room to carry more would have been more practical.

if a bear does want your food beat the **** out of it with your ice axe!:cheers

squeaky

#23

oh yeah resuply…

reds meadow and toulumne will be shut early.

vvr, and mammouth will be your best options. mammouth to sonora is cake. and then your resuply options will be back to normal.

take atleast double the food you would normaly take for the same mileage in the sierra.

squeaky

#24

We did KM-VVR in 10.5 days - we got to VVR with absolutely no food left in time for lunch. If we’d really felt the need to push it we could just have made it in 10 days but it would have been tough. Bear in mind that if you’re early and the lake is low, you’ll have to walk the 6 miles to VVR as the ferry won’t run until there’s enough water in the lake.

We didn’t ration as such, but didn’t really take enough food - I think we had 3500-4000 calories/day each, and probably burned over 6000 so were constantly slightly hungry. We used olive oil (100ml=1000cal in each dinner) as a calorie booster. We got 9 days food into each of our bear canisters and took the first 2 days food out of KM in a stuffsac which we hung at night. We saw 2 bears and some tracks. It’s a helluva long walk out in the snow if a bear gets your food.

I think squeaky might have some comments on starvation dieting…!

dave

#25

Great comments squeaky.

Your comments about rigid footwear and snowshoes piqued my interest.

I definitely understand the value of rigid shoes from past snow experience. But for some reason I’ve been caught up with the common pct hiker advice that light shoes are best. Common advice is that you want shoes that drain and dry fast in the Sierra because they’ll always be wet. To me, boots don’t do that. Yet I know that rigid soles are a huge advantage in the snow. So, what’s the real deal? Do i need a boot-like shoe or will a trail runner suffice? I sort of think that boots would only be an advantage for the few passes and then be a great disadvantage the rest of the time.

Snowshoes… They’re so rarely mentioned but people gripe about “post hole hell” all the time. I have a pair that I could have mailed to be in KM but then I’d be stuck carrying them 'til Kearsarge whether I liked it or not. That’s a heavy four pounds to add to your pack when you’re deciding how many peanuts you want to ration. Any advice? If the talk in late may is that we’re facing huge snow later on should I plan to have them mailed to me? I’m not planning on going late into the sierra… To past hikers in heavy snow years: would you have liked to have snowshoes?

All of the talk about early being better than later reminds me of Scott Williamson’s slideshow that I saw. That’s a man that has LOTS of early season experience. I doubt he’s inclined to say that it’s easier though. Some concerns he mentioned included the difficulty in finding liquid water in some area (having to dig down to water)…

JackH

#26

If anyone has Scott’s email address, please invite him to this thread. I’m sure he would have some great input.

The recommendations so far has been incredible - some of these remarks might save the life of an '06 hiker.

freebird

#27

thanks everyone.

i sent scott an email to invite him in on this thread…
he gave it out on trailcast. ( duckface100 - at - yahoo.com )

ben t

#28

oh yeah, on his interview, scott said that internet speeds in truckee are pathetic, so i don’t think he’s online much…

ben t

#29

anyone going in before june could really benefit from snow shoes. rotten snow is a great danger and knowone has mentioned that either. it is very easy to break through rotten snow around logs and rocks and twist an ankle or knee. once the snow starts to break up snow shoes would be a waste of time.

between piute and mather pass is a very tough uphill slog in the snow. snow shoes would be great here. as they would over muir pass.

boots are great for kicking your toes into the snow for verticle climbing. i had to for some of the early morning passes. they will get wet though but your feet will be warmer. if you do wear boots you will need smething sturdy to ford rivers. running shoes are good for the sierra in low snow years or late in the season. going in early is going beyond hiking, its bordering mountaineering.

mid june enteries this year looks the worst possible time to enter. lots of postholing, rotten snow and swollen rivers. i would advise late may or early late june.

just bare in mind the heavy snow that awaits beyond the sierras. thats when it gets hard!

squeaky

#30

One word of warning: Grivel airtech crampons (or at least the version I found on www.mtntools.com) aren’t suitable for trail running shoes. If you try to use them, they’ll break before the end of the Sierras (and inevitably when you most need them) cos by design they rely on the rigidity of a boot. That central bar connecting the back and the front is the weak point.

JH

#31

JH is that from first hand experience? i used them solidly for nearly 300 miles with trail runners after getting rid of my boots and they are still fine. the points are worn down though but i abused mine to the max. they are more than up to the job of the sierra.

one point about crampons. make sure you have anti balling plates on the bottom. balling snow is hazardous!

there is no way i would recomend something i thought for a second would let someone down in that environment. if crampons do break use guy rope to tie the front piece to the back. it will get you by fine if you tie them tight.

squeaky

#32

I have reread the entire thread, and it appears there is nearly a consensus that fording streams poses the greatest danger to hikers in heavy snow years.

One point in particular struck me as being especially important. Almost everybody mentioned that when faced with a tricky ford, walk up and/or down the stream for a possible log bridge or at least an easier spot to cross. According to RC, this was crucial in '95 when he had to deal with a large number of virtually impossible stream crossings.

Last year i hiked the closed Glacier Peak section of the PCT in Northern WA on my way south from Manning. On June 27th, when i reached the Suiattle River, it was a raging torrent of white-water approximately 30 feet wide and at least waist deep or deeper. It looked impassable, so I decided to camp near the river bank to see how much the water level dropped overnight before deciding whether or not to retreat to Stehekin. I could hear boulders banging along the river bottom, being swept downstream by the current. (does this sound familiar Squeaky?) :slight_smile:

At dawn, the river was considerably lower, as expected, but still formidable. I was about to attempt to ford the river when the thought occurred to me to walk up or downstream in hopes of finding a natural log bridge. Although this was highly unlikely because of the width of the river, i figured that “discretion was the better part of valor” as they say. To my utter surprise and relief, i found a perfect “tree bridge” only a few minutes walk upstream. It was caused when the river undercut its bank and two tall evergreens fell completely across. Instead of attempting a dangerous ford (playing Russian roulette with those boulders???), i was able to walk across a dry tree trunk with branches for handrails!

Seven PCT bridges were destroyed in the October '03 flood in this 45 mile section of closed trail. After my experience at the Suiattle River, i always looked for (& found) a tree bridge across the other creeks and rivers. I rarely got my feet wet at the next six river crossings.

Of course, there are streams above tree line in the high Sierra. In this situation, one option would be to go upstream past a couple tributaries until its safe enough to cross or to go downstream (if possible) below tree line to look for a log bridge.

freebird

#33

Squeaky, I bow to your greater expertise. I haven’t tried out airtech crampons but have had trouble with crampons of that ilk before on bendier-than-usual bendy boots.

jh

#34 
Wow, loads of great advice. Many thanks to all. I honestly do not have much snow experience. It does not snow much here in VA. In 03' I was able to spend a whole Summer in Colorado. I was able to see the snow melt, and experience walking in snow, and experienced postholing many times =P. But honestly, when I told myself last year I was going to do the PCT this year, I had no idea what I was getting into. Anyway, many thanks for all the great info. My one question is if I should have my ice axe before the sierras? Will I need it in SoCal too this year? Also, I have a size 16 foot. Its not easy finding crampons. Any advice? Thanks much for any advice. Shaggy,

Shaggy STICKS

#35

Thanks everyone for the great info. It helps to get a sense of the many conditions that may occur this year. River fording advice is nice to see, as well as different options to be aware of.
Laura

Laura

#36

This is a great thread mainly because I see experienced and skilled thru-hikers thinking outside the box and questioning conventional wisdom. I will not be thru-hiking the PCT for a few years yet. i have time to get some snow travel experience with various configurations of boots, trailrunners, crampons, snow shoes. Most of us will have to commit to our hike long before we know what kind of year we will encounter. Best to be prepared for anything and maintain a flexible approach. If I were going this year I would seriously consider show shoes from KM through the Sierras. I would never have given that option a moment’s thought before reading this thread, but it might just be worth a try.

Huff

#37

True, we do seem to be shifting concern from snow walking to stream crossings. On a scale, crossing of streams might indeed be more dangerous than snow slopes. But it should be clear to all that a focus on stream crossings as the “most dangerous thing” doesn’t erase other dangers and we shouldn’t become complacent about them. Stream crossings are indeed a huge danger, as anyone that has been swept in can attest to (not to mention the river fatalities that occur every year). Let’s remember though that the snow is indeed dangerous. Death and serious injury happens in mountaineering all the time. So heading into the Sierra early might reduce the risk associated with the biggest danger while possibly increasing the risks associated with other dangers like snow travel. I remember hearing that the spring sierra snowpack last year was unusually unstable. I’m pretty sure that there were avalanche fatalities later than normal. So if you head into the Sierra early that might be something you should be paying more attention to…

I’m not sure what my Sierra strategy is besides taking my time. It’s such a lovely place that I wouldn’t want to rush even if it was easy. So I’m probably going to resupply in Independence, VVR, Red’s and Tuolumne! I also don’t think that I’ll play the waiting game. Just start in when I get there. Leaving from the KO that should be early to mid june depending on my pace.

Also, I’m starting to be less concerned about so-cal snow. I don’t know that’s rational or not…

Found some very recent snow pics of San Gorgonio though:
http://earthwalker.smugmug.com/gallery/1351900/1/63820907

And another Sierra danger? Lightning…

:cheers

JackH

#38

JackH -

In both '97 & '05 I saw very little lightning in the High Sierra. When it occurs, its normally very predictable - cumulus clouds build up in the late afternoon (and eventually dissipate in the evening). You can “see it coming” and plan accordingly to be below treeline.

If you summit Whitney, you should be very careful if there’s even a hint of a thunderstorm. Although the Smithsonian observatory perched on the summit has lightening rods, people have died inside the building from lightening strikes (big warning sign bolted to building refers to this) BTW, as of 10/09/05, the door is still missing, so if anyone decides to sleep up there, be prepared for a nippy night!!! :slight_smile:

On a different note, the only email that i have received so far questioning the recommendations given in this thread is in reference to fording streams & whether or not to keep hip-belts buckled.

Radar pointed out that the method used by Dave (keeping his waist-belt unbuckled) was contrary to everything he had ever read about stream fording. He’s exactly right - we’ve probably read some of the same books. :slight_smile:

I pointed out that packs are much smaller and lighter now, and that they often have quick-release buckles, but I didn’t explain the reason why i personally found it advantageous to keep my hip-belt buckled.

I have found that balance plays a huge part in a tricky ford. With my pack unbuckled, i have often been thrown off-balance by the weight shift of the pack when it slides back and forth without the hip-belt fastened.

I have a small pack with a hand stitched hip-belt. The buckle is a quick-release type that is easy to unfasten even when it is under a lot of tension. I can unbuckle it within a second or two.

Also, i have a considerable amount of experience in turbulent water - i have been a professional windsurfer here in Hawaii for many years. This doesn’t directly relate to river fording in any technical way, but it does mean that i am comfortable being held under water for long periods of time (big waves) and i have learned through experience to not panic in potential drowning situations.

I wouldn’t recommend keeping the hipbelt fastened, unless you know that you won’t panic and you have a full-proof quick-release buckle. (my buckle is the exact type used for windsurfing harnesses)

Abandoning your pack in an emergency might save your life - especially if you have friends with food and dry clothes waiting on the river bank. :slight_smile:

In ‘97, a PCT thru-hiker was swept downstream somewhere in the High Sierra ( i forget which stream it was). He made a fairly quick decision to abandon his pack, due to waterfalls downstream. Fortunately he was able to swim to the far side and get out before the falls. He was also able to recover his pack below the waterfalls!!!

freebird

#39

do not under estimate southern california!!!

i was in crap sucked in weather all day on san jacento last year. navigation was tough. fuller ridge was tough aswell. i under estimated it way too much. i had no compass or crampons. my maps were 1:100,000 which werent up to the job. i had a digital compass which barely got me through. luckily for me i had foot prints as a guide and for foot holds.

baden powell is a stage up. with heavy snow it will mean a tough 3,000 foot climb straight up to the summit. ice axe and crampons are going to be a must in cold weather or early mornings. the trail is very steep on either side of the ridge. you will have to walk the ridge line on this section. because of the exposed ridge walk and steep terrain either side bad weather or poor visibility will make things dangerous up there.

around big bear is going to hold alot of snow. these sections are steep with snow on them. early mornings will require crampons. again i was lucky to have footprints to step in.

dont under estimate anything on the PCT. its high and exposed.:cheers

squeaky

#40

I’ve been asked to elaborate on my strongly worded advice of avoiding crampons on logs.

Let me say first that not using crampons on log crossings is my personal rule, and although I recommend it as a general rule, of course, there are exceptions.

I must admit, I worded it strongly to avoid crampons on logs. I’m not an expert, and probably not up on my reading as many of you are - so these are just my opinions. That said, if you have to ask - and I’m glad you are asking :slight_smile: - then please test my advice before you are in a dangerous situation that absolutely requires you to use crampons. You may find - as I did - that crampons are great for secure footing - but ONLY UNTIL you begin to loose your balance. If you do not have experience using crampons, I would suggest practicing on a log on the ground or just wearing them around the yard for a while.

Log crossings I have encountered are tenuous to say the least. And most require a dependency on good balance. Crampons are not conducive to maintaining balance. They are made so that your feet will stick and stay where you put them. If you have ever been balanced on a log and on the verge of losing it, you know you have to shift your feet and shift them quickly. You just can’t lift your foot off and plant it just anywhere as if you were on the ground - your feet have to stay on the log and pretty much directly underneath you. With crampons, you cannot slide or shift your feet. You have to deliberately pick your feet up to clear the spikes, and then carefully place them where the spikes will hold in a stable manner - hard to do when you are losing your balance and your inner ear is subconsciously dictating where you feet should go.

Also, there are irregularities and entanglements of limbs to deal with on a downed tree. Snow, and to some degree - ice, can be forgiving when using crampons, but if one of your spikes knicks a stiff twig or knot on the log, you can easily loose your balance.

I think the only time I would feel ‘comfortable’ using crampons on a log would be if I did not have to solely depend on my feet for balance. Only if limbs or other stable handholds were available (excluding walking poles or sticks).

Some more input here on equipment. I’m glad Squeaky detailed some equipment advice. I agree with all his advice. Here I echoe some of his thoughts…

crampons: I used instep crampons and at times wished I had a full set. Definitely get a full pair if you will be encountering conditions such as he did.

boots: I wore Vasque Sundowners (leather with a molded rubber sole), and wished I had a stiffer edge to kick into the snow for footholds. I felt like I was trying to drive a nail with a rubber hammer! On long traverses, it can be very exhausting having to drive your boots in half a dozen times just to get one foothold - not to mention being painful on the toes.

snowshoes: I didn’t mention snowshoes, because there were several hikers in 95 that did not use them. I don’t know how they managed. I think they wish they had them at some point. I would definitely use them again. Sometimes I used them on ‘rotten’ snow especially around boulders. I fell through into some boulders up to my shoulders and had a hell of time getting out. I soon made a regular practice of using snowshoes.

fords: Yes, snow bridges can be very dangerous. I don’t know how to tell if one can hold your weight, but if in any doubt - pass it up. The ones I used, you could drive a SUV over. They were 10-20 meters thick. The one non-thruhiker I did meet in the Sierras was going the opposite way, and mentioned I had an impossible ford ahead of me and that there was an ‘iffy’ snowbridge that he used. Well, this ‘iffy’ thing was 10 meters long and about 3 feet thick in the middle. Needless to say, I took my chances in the water. This hiker was from some old school - he had all cotton clothing and two wooden ice axes that probably weighed 10 lbs apiece.

forester: I chose not to deal with the snow cornice on Forester and used the passage to the right (east). Timing can be critical for a safe ascent and descent of the passes. know your snow conditions and potential avalanche dangers. Has anyone ever mentioned using a helmet in rock fall, avalanche, traversing, or fording situations?

gps: although I use gps units everyday for work, I never take them for recreational hikes. If you are like me, a map and compass will do. I did get turned around a couple of times in snow below treeline on overcast days when I could not tell where the sun was. If you want to play it safe, you may depend on it if you are caught in zero-visibility conditions - in which case, use your tracks history to trace and approximate your current route on your paper map. Night hiking in unfamiliar terrain using a gps unit and map is good practice.

RC