Stock Use - Continental Divide Trail

imported
#1

I’m in the process of a thru-ride with my two mules
right now and became very frustrated with the CDNST
yesterday. My understanding was that the Trail was
designated for foot and horse traffic, so imagine my
surprise when I found that a section of the official
trail was closed to stock use and likely impassable
anyways.

I’m aware that I’m probably the only rider on this
forum, but I hope that y’all can understand my
frustration especially after riding 25 miles up
highway 117 yesterday instead of the Zuni-Acoma trail.
After just barely resisting the temptation to cut
some wires and ride it anyways, I spoke to the ranger
station to try and find a way out of riding the
highway. I discovered that another section of the
official trail through Hole In The Wall isn’t closed
to horses but is considered impassable.

I know stock users do not compose the bulk of trail
users. I’m also aware that many hikers, fairly or
unfairly, have a negative impression of stock in the
backcountry. However, this group of trail users
deserves equal consideration and respect. Many riders
are switching to low impact stock use methods: using
light weight gear instead of traditional equipment,
tree saver straps, tying stock at night, restraining
away from water sources, etc.) In additon,
organizations like Backcountry Horseman do significant
trail maintenace to keep trails open. I am very
disappointed that the BLM decided to place the
official route in an area closed to stock.

I am not suggesting that this section of the trail be
entirely rerouted. I understand that the Zuni-Acoma
trail offers a unique landscape, historical
significance, as well as an unusual challenge to
hikers. However, an official horse alternative needs
to exist. Stock users should not be cut out of this
trail.

I know many hikers do not enjoy travelling through
areas frequented by horse traffic. However, I don’t
think the CDT is in danger of receiving significant
stock use except in areas where it’s already
established (i.e. Bob Marshall Wilderness, Wind Rivers
etc). To the best of my knowledge, no thru-ride of
the CDT has ever been completed and it may not happen
this year :slight_smile: The trail is simply too challenging for
the stock themselves for many to attempt it. Hikers
will always be the dominant presence on the CDT.

I have been frustrated for much of this trail because
of horse inaccesabilty. Until this point I haven’t
had much right to complain. I’ve been following Jim
Wolf’s route, and he makes no claim that his trail in
southern New Mexico is horse friendly. In fact the
number of times the phrase “squeeze through the
tightly woven fence here” appeared let me know I’d be
adding a lot of extra miles finding gates.

However, the Zuni-Acoma is on the designated trail.
Permanent trail routing decisions were made in Glacier
based on stock accessability. Why not in New Mexico?
I hope that the BLM can take horse users into
consideration and perhaps have two routes through the
area.

Treehuggin’ Cowgirl

Treehuggin’ Cowgirl

#2

I think the real answer is to have a “stock option trail” for those sections where stock aren’t allowed. This is true for the Colorado Trail for where mountain bikes are not allows. They scouted alternate routes for the mountain biker.

I think it would be unfair to hikers to route the trail around something beautiful just because stock animals aren’t allowed. But it sounds like you already agree with that…

Gravity

Gravity

#3

As the trail becomes more and more complete I’m sure there will be more stock options for places like Zuni-Acoma (where the lava would make horse travel impossible and I would say you didn’t miss too much by skipping it). But many places in New Mexico right now are not finished even for foot travel. I’m pretty sure there was a gravel road south of the Zuni-Acoma area that could have been used as a cut-off that would’ve eliminated some of the highway travel, but I would have to dig back through my maps to find out for certain. It would have been before you got to La Ventana. For now you may be part of the solution. If you end up finding decent stock options to non-stock portions of the trail, report them to Wolf and the CDTA, and also just let them know of places stock options are needed. We met a horseman at the Circle R ranch near Cuba last year, who rode back and forth from there to Silver City often. If you stop at the hostel there, someone may have some more stock travel information for you.

I’m fairly certain the trail has been thru-riden, last year LB met someone who had done it about 10 years ago at least I’m pretty sure she had done the whole trail. We met a family - mom, dad, two teenage girls - who were hiking the trail last year with two mules carrying their stuff. I believe they did half the trail, but had heard they were flipping back down to do more, so I’m not sure how much they ended up covering.

Despite the obstacles I hope you enjoy the ride!

Skits

#4

When your stock animals crap on the trail do you take the time to pick up and bury the pie appropriately? Seems to me since your animals are doing all the work for you perhaps that would be reasonable for you to do.

Hiker

#5

BLM doesn’t administer the Zuni-Acoma trail so blaming them is going to do you no good. It is administered by the National Park Service so you might do good to know what the land status is before you start blaming agencies for something they have no control of. You had several options in that area if you had only researched them beforehand.

dancingdog1

#6

horse poop is good and natural so don’t knock it until you try it.
at least they dont leave wads of tpaper all over the ground/
and I like horses too
-so there…

bblllltttth

(horseless in NC)

1/4 of the way

#7

As a horseowner AND someone who has hiked the Zuni-Acoma…you would NOT want to subject your animal to that kind of a ride…it’s just not possible and any attempt to do so would be sheer cruelty to your mules. Had you “cut the wires” you not only would have created issues for yourself with the park service but you would also not have gotten very far before you realized you made a HUGE mistake.

dancingdog1

#8

Where to start . . .

First of all dancingdog1, I don’t appreciate the anonymous comment on my blog that was entirely out of context. That was kind of tacky.

Second of all, I’m fully aware of who administers the El Malpais National Monument, and it was explained to me by a National Park Service employee that the Zuni-Acoma was impassable to stock. Wh,ether or not would consider it doable, I don’t know. I haven’t seen it. However, I was under the impression that the BLM was responsible for determining the location of the official trail in that part of the state. The Park Service only administers a small portion of land in the area and would not be placed in charge of such a task.

In addition, please learn to recognize a frustrated person’s attempt at humor. I’m fully aware of the consequences of cutting fence. That’s why I don’t. I never undo a fence unless I can put it back together as good as it was. Although, the sign at the trailhead didn’t say no horses :wink:

Also, I know that I’m taking risks with my animals by attempting this trail. However, I know what they’re capable of, and what’s more, mules know what they’re capable of. A mule won’t try something it knows it can’t do. If I wasn’t confident in their ability both physically and mentally, I wouldn’t be out here. Could something still happen? Yes, but that doesn’t make me cruel. Are people who take their children backpacking cruel? I would appreciate someone with the backyard pony mentality not commenting on cruelty to my backcountry stock.

As for research, you have no concept of the amount of time I spent preparing for this ride. The logistics of a thru-ride with horses are at least 10 times more complicated than those for a hiker, not to mention equipment, conditioning, and training. In between figuring how to resupply, how to get my horses to New Mexico, splicing ropes, training my animals, and doing all the normal things a hiker has to do, I did tons of research. Why did I not know the El Malpais was closed to horses? Because I was operating on the knowledge that the Continental Divide Trail was designated as a horse and hiker trail, and I assumed that the agencies building the trail were operating on that premise. The bulk of my research on horse accessability was limited to where horse camping was allowed. That was what I expected to be restricted. Bad assumption. Oh well, too late now. I’m here. However, my point is that the agencies should be establishing a horse and hiker trail.

Hiker,

Equines don’t leave “pies”. That would be cattle. Horses and mules leave large dry round droppings that won’t stick to your boots like a cow pie. It’s much worse to step in coyote or bear droppings, but you’d probably be excited to see those.

Also, herbivore droppings don’t tend to attract wild animals the same way omnivore or carnivore droppings do. It makes much better sense to bury dog droppings than horse.

All right, I’ll try to be nice in the next post . . .

Treehuggin’ Cowgrl

#9

So continuing frustration south of Cuba . . .

First I’d like to say the New Mexico Mountain Club has built a beautiful trail through the Piedra Lumbre segment. I just wish I’d gotten to enjoy a little more of it. The frustrating thing is they’ve installed hiker walk-through gates all along it. These allow a human to walk through without opening anything (although can y’all fit through with your packs?), but are much to narrow for stock to even attempt. I believe I had to find a way around about 12 of them. One of these alternate routes got me off the trail for at least 10 miles because of another illegally locked gate on public land. In some spots, I could see where the old barbed wire gate used to be and had been removed. I spoke to David Allen, the recreation guy for the Santa Fe National Forest, and he believe the BLM were operating on a hiking trail only mentality. Whether horses are simply being ignored or intentionally excluded, I’m not sure.

In addition, the section of the trail that goes up the Mesa Portales is entirely impassable by stock. I’d even go as far to call it suicidal. It’s also very difficult to find a way around because of the number of fences and surrounding private property. Kenny (who you mentioned Skits) at the Circle A Ranch, where I am right now (www.circlearanchhostel.com), just told me a way around and I hope to get that recorded as a horse alternate.

The crux of this issue is that the trail was established as a hiker AND equestrian trail and in some sections the horses are being left out of the equation. This is not acceptable. The horse community is taking an active role in this trail. Backcountry Horseman is helping construct trail segments all over the country and there are stock users who want to be on this trail.

I am not suggesting that existing sections that are horse impassable but hiker friendly be removed from the official trail. In those instances, an alternate route that is also largely or entirely off-road needs to be developed. However, no new trail sections should be constructed that are not horse friendly. I’m not saying that they have to be easy perfectly groomed trail 8ft wide, 10ft tall, but perhaps no rebar sticking out of constructed rock steps :wink:

In addition, something needs to be done about the gates. It’s one thing if no one’s had the time or resources to install any sort of gate in a particular stretch of fence, but it’s simply maddening to find a walk-through gate. The amount of additional time to also create barbed wire gates at those location would have been next to nothing, maybe 10 minutes at each gate. That said, so I’m not just whining, I’m going to attempt to spend some time next summer installing horse passable gates in that area.

Horses should not be treated as a sideline to a hiker trail, ignored when convenient. We are an integral part. This is the West, and they’re part of the culture. If you want to go somewhere where your boots won’t be tainted by any green stuff, go hike the AT.

1/4th of the Way- Thanks!!! :happy

Skits- There is that gravel road, but I was already up the highway several miles at La Ventana. It’s a bit south of the road out of the Cebolla. My options were to add an additional day and head for that road or cut of a day and continue riding the highway. Those are currently the only two feasible horse options according to Kenny. I’m also going to start working on a “horse supplement”, but it’ll take at least a couple more trips to areas that kinda got traveled through by the seat of my pants.
Thanks for the info about other riders. The first woman you mentioned came up on the e-mail list and apparently she had to stop and winter somewhere and finish the next year. I guess she also wasn’t using the trail exclusively, but that’s also true of many hikers. I hadn’t heard about the family. What year were they? Like I said, to the best of my knowledge no one’s done a CDT thru-ride, but not everyone who does these sorts of things reports them to the Long Riders Guild. I could be entirely wrong. Thanks for the well wishes.

Treehuggin’ Cowgrl

#10

Contact the CDTA with your concerns. They are the ones working closely with the land managers and they are the ones who should be able to address the issues.

As I said on CDT-L - you will find a lot of places on the CDT that aren’t horse friendly. You are right, a new section of trail built specifically for the CDT should have been both horse and hiker accessible. We found sections that were brand new and were open to motorbikes - against the law, but the local land managers were trying to appease the local user groups. It’s wrong, but it happens. When you find sections that aren’t open to horses, contact both the local land agency and CDTA. Maybe things will change eventually.

One additional concern - do you carry an axe/hatchet? When you reach areas with trees (i.e. in Colorado and southern Montana), some sections don’t get maintained. We did a lot of climbing over downed trees. You will need to be able to cut blowdowns yourself.

Ginny

#11

For sounding rude or insensitive. That was not my intention. With that being said I do have a few replies and then I am done.

#1) I don’t think my post on your web-site was rude, insensitive or tacky. I did wish you the best of luck….of which I still do. I was only trying to let you know not to blame BLM for that section…other sections you can…but not that little stretch.

#2) No BLM does not make the final decisions. Each land management agency makes their own decision as to where the trail should go IN COORDINATION with other agencies. So, to that end, I stick by my original statement…do not blame BLM for the Zuni-Acoma being a part of the trail…it could very well have gone through the Zuni mountains (USFS) and would have made it a little easier for you…but it wasn’t. BLM CANNOT under any circumstance make ANY decisions for either the park service or the forest service. They can suggest ideas but the decision as to where the trail goes beyond their lands is not theirs to make…that simple.

#3) Hole in the wall wasn’t the only option. You could have gone up the chain of craters back country byway …crossed hwy 53, gone up via either zuni canyon or bonita canyons, taken a little side road that would get you out through Milan and you could have gone up the back way of mt. taylor while avoiding a good portion of town and if you were so inclined you could have gone to the little grocery store in Milan to re-supply…The official trail goes through the chain of craters anyway…not hwy117.

#4) I have been riding and owning horses for 30 years now. My grandfather was a founder of the POA’s and my mother was a national champion with them. She also RAISES horses, mules and mammoth donkeys and has for my entire life. I have also been involved with raising and training mules and horses from almost the time I learned to ride. We have a jack that won grand champion at Bishop and mules that have been shipped across the country…including the grand canyon. I have done everything there is to do on a horse from roping, to show jumping, to trail, to dressage and I have spent a good portion of my time going crosscountry with them on our ranch, in the mountains, and all over. I do have a good background with both mules and horses and do not have a “backyard pony” mentality. I do KNOW what I am talking about. And for the record…I never said you were being cruel, I said IT would be cruel to take them across the trail.

#5) I realize you may have spent a tremendous amount of time preparing for this ride…I never disputed that. I just don’t think basing a ride on assumptions is a very good idea.

At any rate I will again wish you luck. Hopefully you can find “better trail” as you go along.

dancingdog1