Thanksgiving - Appalachian Trail

imported
#21

If I may roam from the thankful topic a bit…

There is another example of accessibility in Vermont. The Churchill Scott shelter just north of Killington was built a couple of years ago. The privy there is handicap accessible. The Green Moutain Club ridge runner explained to us that GMC built the building to conform with the ADA because it sits on federal lands (GMNF). He further explained that accessible meant that the building itself had to conform to ADA, not the trails. Churchill Scott shelter is easily three miles, most of it up hill, from the nearst road (US 4) and four or so miles north of Killington.

Now that thankfulness thing. Me, I’m very thankful for the opportunity to get out there and enjoy the trails and to everyone who puts the time and effort into keeping the trails and the shelters.

Happy Thanksgiving. See you out there.

Digit

#22

Drop a couple of big trees across the trail,that should slow them down.

old&in the way

#23

Seems to me that everyone is missing the real reason there is a ramp to the outhouse on Killington and other ADA access requirements are being imposed on the trail. It’s not about location (Federal Lands) it’s about money.

Simply put, taxpayer dollars will not be provided for projects that do not conform. Other shelters have been built without handicapped access when privately funded. But if you want to drink from the Federal well you must accept what comes with it. Even if it looks, tastes and smells bad.

CitySlicker

#24

Hey if they want to build a handicapped bathroom more power to them. I love those extra wide stalls. Gives a little extra room for breathing and air circulation too.

I agree its a little silly but geez, lighten up a little. Be thankful you don’t need that ramp. :cheers

jalan

#25

The ADA does NOT require that new Appalachian Trail shelters be wheelchair or handicap accessible. The test is reasonable feasibility of the access. It is not “feasible” to make a remote, backcountry hiking shelter accessible to wheelchair bound handicapped persons.

The ADA does NOT require that you alter or destroy the purpose of a new construction on federal lands, in order that it be accessible to the disabled. That is exactly what happens when you build a new Appalachian Trail shelter near a road or with a graded access ramp connected to a road like a superhighway.

I don’t have access to the law library on Thanksgiving to dig up the caselaw for you, but the federal courts have severely limited the applicaition of the ADA, so that it does not produce absurd results such as this. No federal judge would order A.T. backcountry shelters to be accessible to wheelchairs.

Whoever at the ACT ran with the misconception that the ADA requires backcountry AT shelters to be wheelchair accessible has made a grave blunder and has set a dangerous “precedent” within the AT management community. We should make sure it does not happen again.

Foots425

#26

Bryan, Foots425–it sounds like you need to write your congressmen. The fact is, I think it’s kind of a silly and an inefficient use of funds, but then again, we are talking about our government are we not?

And yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you to all the maintainers, builders, AND hikers. The Trail is a wonderful investment for everyone in this country. Let’s keep fighting and volunteering to keep it that way!

Cap’n

#27

Well, here’s my final thoughts.
Huge thanks to any volunteers that work on keeping the trail a wonderful place to hike.

PU to whatever nutjob thought a AT shelter needed a wheelchair ramp.

Its a shame they are making volunteers that have better stuff to do, use their awesome talents for such useless tasks.

bryan

#28

Wheelchair ramp, HA! How’s the wheelchair going to get to the shelter in the first place? Unless as Foots said, they start building paved paths to the shelters.

Smore

#29

Geez…kick them while they are down. You might welcome that ramp if you are so hiker-hobbled after a 40 mile day that you are crawling on your belly to get into the shelter. As for the wide doors, they do double duty to allow easy simultaneous ingress and egress for winter clothed walkers. Yeah! Think outside the box!

Actually, the second best thing these handicapped accessible features can do, is a little memory jog for us to be grateful we can walk. javascript:smile(’:tongue’)

Be Glad You Can Walk

#30

To “Be glad that you can walk”. I have a few words to say…“Amen” & “Thank you”.“Handicapped Accessible” is not just for folks w/ wheelchairs it helps those of us who have a bit harder time than the average bear in hiking. While I understand some of the sentiments expressed; the anger of some of the earlier posts got tiring & made me feel sad & small. Thank you for “getting it”. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone; no matter what side of any fence you’re on!

Leah

#31

I started this thread 2 years ago and was scoffed!! Thank God we are finally going to get an ada compliant AT.

http://www.trailforums.com/index2.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=2145&Thread=1&roomID=7&entryID=17343

Wheelman

#32

Lean and Be Glad You Can Walk are missing the point. The point is that the only way to make an AT shelter “wheelchair accessible” is to do either one of two things:

(1) You build the shelter next to a road, or

(2) You build a longer paved path from the nearest road to the shelter.

Either way, you eliminate the isolation and sense of remoteness of backcountry shelters.

Foots425

#33

“Wheelman” is a troll. There is no such thing as a wheelchair AT hiker.

Unfortunately, there are some very simple-minded (although ‘pure of bleeding heart’) people out there who do not think through what they do or say, and who can ruin things miserably by their naiivete.

Foots425

#34

THE POINT is that some technocrat/bureaucrat/administrator weenie wasted lots of money designing, championing, sponsoring and building a shelter with features that NOBODY will ever use. In order to be a plumber, you gotta be smarter than the pipes.

Our buddy Howard McDonald and some other loafer-wearing weenie at the ATC obviously are examples of an all-too-common phenomenon in our country: people who have lost the ability to APPLY COMMON SENSE.

As for the horn tooting, only an idiot would toot one’s horn over such a stupid waste of funds as putting wheelchair accessible features on a shelter for hikers out in the woods. And folks wonder why everything we buy is made in China? This incident is symptomatic of the moronic and paralyzing instutional thinking that has gripped the minds and nuts of people in positions to make things happen.

And folks wonder why we can’t put a backward country like Iraq back together…in way over our heads there AND here. Can’t even build a frigging log shack and craphouse in the woods any more. jackasses.

The Point

#35

We all had a great meal and fellowship at Miss Janet’s yeaterday. At the head of the food line were 3 SOBO hikers. Roasted turkey and deep fried too with many side dishes. 40 pounds of potato disappeared somewhere. The dessert table rivaled any gourmet restaurant.

As far as the old Roaring Fork Shelter is concerened, I say keep it. I’ve seen no evidence of it being shot up or trashed during the times I’ve visited. Sometimes things get over exaggerated to justify an end. When the Bryson movie comes out, this shelter will serve a purpose. Not that it doesn’t serve a purpose now.

Yes, the new Roaring Fork Shelter is really nice. It would have been a good idea to put a little roof over the metal cooking area though. IMHO. The new picnic table is not going to be under cover either and there is a large spot in front of the sleeping platform where it could go. Actually it probably will be dragged to the covered area – knowing hikers. Unless the table is made stationary.

that guy

#36

Wider shelter entry points so the bears can get in too.

bryan

#37

wait till you read the article in the latest backpacker. here is a taste:

page 34, “…within the next 6 months, the US Forest Service is expected to relaese new trail guidlines requiring all federal land management agencies to build new trails and upgrade existing ones to government accessibility standards.”

jerm

#38

You can find a link to the actual FSTAG (Forest Service Trail Accessibility Guidelines) and comments about them by the former Exec Dir of the North Country Trail Assoc from the NCTA web page. Go to http://www.northcountrytrail.org/voluntrs/resource.htm

sharkbytes

#39

we are winning!!! trails for all, even the differently abled!! from my post two years ago. don’t give up on your dreams! Pave( or gravel) the AT if needed, then we all can enjoy the thru hike experiance!! from two years ago on this forum:

Access for the differently abled
I am inviting comment on the beginning of what may be a lifelong project.I am a differently abled hiker. Due to a farming accident when I was 14 I have been w/o the use of my legs for several years.
I believe that most if not all of the AT should be brought up to the standards set forth by the Americans With Disabilities Act and should be able to be accessed by all.

This would entail some re routing, perhaps a new wheel chair friendly surface and assistance by the park service in traversing more difficult stretches. There should be handrails and ramps and ADA compliant restrooms/privies the length of the trail.

I want to be a part of the AT community and experience what you experience. I want to someday have a trail name and journal on this site documenting my through hike. I am sure there are others who feel as I do. The only way this will ever happen is if we have the support of the non-disabled. What do you think? Would you ever invite me to wheel into camp ? No snoring, I promise. J

Thank you in advance for your comments and help with this issue.

wheelman

#40

Oh great…

Well, I guess I better quickly plan a thru-hike for 2006, before these people ruin the AT for good.

I can see it now. Gravel switchbacks at 10 degree grades up every mountain. Increasing the trail from 2000+ miles to 6000 miles because of all the switchbacks.

HELLO…the whole reason I go to the AT is because its an extreme challenge, and NOT a graded level path through the woods.

As usual in the US, the 1% somehow manages to tell the other 99% what to do, and for some reason we let them.

bryan