Thanksgiving - Appalachian Trail

imported
#41

The AT is an extreme challenge? I thinks it’s pretty easy. It would be extreme for a wheel chair hiker.

wolf

#42

Why feed the troll?

Baitbreath

#43

the reason people let silly ideas like a “wheelchair accessible AT” come to fruition, is b/c they feel the need to be politically correct.

newsflash: there already exists a wheelchair accessible AT route, it’s called: I81, blue ridge parkway, skyline drive, etc. bill bryson used this route for his “hike”, i’m sure he could hook anyone up with the details.

the goat

#44

May I chime in here?

I’m a wheelchair hiker / backpacker in CA, who spends every spring and summer weekend on trails, including Sierra elevations above 13,000 feet. That’s a ton of rocks to get over, narrow trails to navigate, and air not there to breathe! I use a manual chair, and have been challenged about “access” numerous times by do - gooders wishing to preserve the experience for themselves. I’d rather be walking, believe me…but I’ve gotta do with what I’ve got. The AT is on my short list to explore, and while wheelchair accomodations are certainly not a necessity for me, I am always appreciative of the thought.

I see almost ZERO wheelchair hikers even locally, in the SF Bay Area. In the Sierra? None. So lest anyone here think I’m OK with making all wilderness accessible, I have no such agenda. I believe, rather, that instead of the trail adapting to my needs, I work like a muthuh in the gym and on weekend jaunts to adapt myself to the trail’s needs. There are few of you who could lift weights with me! :slight_smile:
I do appreciate the efforts to make sections of trail accessible, to a degree. And I’d sure like to see more chair bound hikers stretch out a little, challenge themselves to do the kinds of things I do. I hope someday to meet some of you as we pass on the AT, and I’ll spend one graciously provided night in the comfort of an accessible campsite.

4wheelbob

#45

I had seen this thread and was wondering if you might chime in (and before you scream troll, Bob is very well known and has been featured in BP magazine :slight_smile:
Now…my 2 cents. Having a mother who is losing parts of her feet to diabetes, this past summer I took her on a trip thru WA and OR states-and I can say that I am happy that many places have accesbility for the disabled! My mother has to use a walker-a sports model though. It made me look into myself and ask “what would I do if I couldn’t walk?” And I can tell you I wouldn’t sit at home - I would be like Bob out there, living life.
Be happy that you CAN walk. Don’t take it for granted! And just rember…you will be old soon enough-and then you won’t be so crabby about a few ramps!

sarbar

#46

Thanks, Sarbar! I looked at the posts and figured it would only be a matter of time before I was labeled a troll, too. The Backpacker article on my White Mtn (CA, not eastern - all 14,246’)trip is in the works, too. Maybe before all is said and done, we’ll have a few more believers that a chair can, indeed, make it anywhere others can - with a little hard work!:slight_smile:

4wheelbob

#47

4wheelbob wrote: “instead of the trail adapting to my needs, I work like a muthuh in the gym and on weekend jaunts to adapt myself to the trail’s needs.” More power to you, Bob. I don’t even care if you call yourself a hiker, even though you’re not.

Just don’t mess with our backcountry shelters or try to turn our hiking trails into wheelchair paths, ok? Leave the shelters in the backcountry and the trails rough, even if people who are bound to chairs will never see them.

I admire your determination to rely on yourself to see as much of the backcountry as your ability and bullheaded will allows.

Foots425

#48

…the hostility. I’m vehemently anti - ADA when it comes to backcountry or wilderness, which we in the west have in spades. I want it to remain wilderness, just as you, apparently, do. I work with two local park districts to select which short, flat trails could or should be made accessible, but as for that which is wild, let it so remain. I hike on single track stuff often, and if it gets too dicey, I’ll back off rather than complain to someone that it should be graded, flattened, paved…you said earlier, I believe, that chairs belong on pavement, and you’re absolutely wrong. Chairs belong wherever they want to go, but not by special trail attribution; force of will and determination should be the determining factors.

I was once approached by a bunch of Sierra Club birders who challenged my right to be out in the wilderness (on CA’s Sonora Peak 11,429’ which I do 3 - 4 times each year) - I simply let them know we’ll arm wrestle for it, I’ll turn around if they win…no takers. Bold suckers, weren’t they? At least I’ll put my money where my mouth is.:slight_smile: I’m slower than most, but solo hike for that reason. I don’t take or need an attendant. I would hope that you open your sphere of reference and save the hostility for real threats to our wilderness - oh, and when I’m at the gym tonight tricep pressing 290, I’ll be thinking of you!:slight_smile:

4wheelbob

#49

After reading my last post, I realized it came off as somewhat harsh. My apologies, Bob. I meant to complement you, and admire your will to overcome obstacles (literally and figuratively) without demanding that the wilderness conform to them.

It looks like we’re in agreement on the main point – hiking trails should be preserved as hiking trails. On the other hand, that troll “wheelman” should roll back under his bridge.

Foots425

#50

people always make me wonder if they actually hike :wink:

I wonder if these anti’s would look down on the disabled gent who attempted Mt. Rainier a bit back? Would you say he had no right to be there? That man had more upper body strength than many of us could ever dream of!

I feel that everyone deserves a chance to green bond in this world. If you can find a way, do it!

Heck, if you want to get personal, I use trekking poles currently due to that a medicine I have to take makes me shaky-should I stay home because I have balance issues?

sarbar

#51

Appreciate the clarification! The last thing I’d want to see is any wilderness trail paved or compromised - the challenge is what brings me back. ADA compliance wasn’t meant to apply to ALL public land - I’ve gone on record with the USFS here in our Nat’l forests as being opposed to opening wilderness artificially.

Sarbar, you’re right - there’s also the guy on Ranier, whom I hope to meet next year, who invented a chain driven, hand powered snow cat. I’d like to take it up Shasta in late winter if it can be arranged. I encourage the disabled (I hate this word!) community to challenge themselves to get out, make the changes to make it work for the individual, instead of asking for wilderness to be delivered on a platter.

And maybe next year, on one of my jaunts to my employer’s facility in PA, I’ll meet some of you on the AT and so I can gain a little knowledge about your jewel of a trail. :slight_smile:

4wheelbob

#52

into the “anti” or “angry” category, let me say that i agree with everything 4wheelbob has said. i highly admire those like bob that conquer what most would consider unthinkable.

that said, i do believe making the whole AT wheelchair accessible would be a travesty (just as bob does)!:cheers

the goat

#53

I applaude 4wheelbob.

Finally a wheelchair hiker with a good attitude and some common sense.

Wheelman should take some clues from 4wheelbob. Exercise, physical endurance, and proper equipment can get you much farther than trying to change the trail.

I also dare say 4wheelbob probably gets more satisfaction from his trips,knowing that he worked hard to get there vs having someone else baby him by making the trail easier.

Im all for everyone getting the chance to experience the AT, but not at the expense of the AT.

4wheelbob, if you ever get the chance to hit the southern AT, the benton mckaye that runs to three forks along the side of the AT from springer mtn would probably be a good choice. Its narrow, but the grade is decent. I dont know what kind of ground you can make on a rough trail, but long creek falls should be within a day. Its a small falls, but what a reward.

bryan

#54

…hey, make mine a Pyramid Pale!

4wheelbob

#55

If you Google some CA peaks, specifically Leavitt Peak, Sonora Peak, White Mountain Peak, that’ll give you an idea of what I’ve summited or “almost” summited (White Mtn is 14+, next year for sure!:slight_smile: ). I understand much of the AT is narrow and rocky…rocky I can handle, narrow I can do, but won’t if it gets too dicey - but hey, I’ll just find a trail I fit in that case. As for rocks, much of my training is spent dragging 150 lbs behind my chair with the front wheels off the ground - simulates steep grades when it’s too wet to get out, and I can literally wheelie for a mile if that’s what conditions dictate. I appreciate the specific trail info, and will give it a shot next year, probably.

4wheelbob

#56

That actually looks like some really cool hiking. Its all flat and smooth based on the pictures. You wont find much of that kind of terrain on the AT in Georgia. Bear Hair Gap trail that runs out of Vogul State Park is somewhat smooth and wide, but its a fairly short trip. There is a nice paved tourist path up to Anna Ruby Falls with some steep inclines.

OOOOOH…I know
The trail down the mountain side to dukes creek falls!! That would be IDEAL for a hardcore wheelchair hiker. Its short like about 1.5 miles down, but WOW what a finish, some incredible classic GA waterfalls. Really awesome in late October right as the leaves are changing color and falling off. It gives you a nice wide view of the falls through the thinning trees, but you still get those nice fall colors. The trail is wide and pretty smooth, and is a switchback all the way down the mountain to the falls. Even the grades arent too bad. It was 85 degrees at the top of the trail, by the time we got to the falls, it dropped down to probably 35 or so. The falls make it cold down there in that valley so bring a fleece or something.

Its still remains one of my favorite spots in GA. Anna Ruby is normally flooded with tourists. Dukes creek falls tends to be a little less used, mainly because the tourists see a sign that says 1.5 miles (one way)hike and they drive off to go to Anna Ruby.

bryan

#57

I have to load some AT maps to find some doable stretches. Thanks for the info.

Sonora Peak is my favorite for a day hike. About 3 miles from 9300 fett up slippery talus to the 11,400 ft summit. White Mtn. is my personal “white whale”. I’ve gotten as far as about 13,000 feet, and the finish is brutal. I tried in September to do it as a dayhike, 12 miles, all above 12,000 feet. Bad idea. So next year, I’ll pack up the tent and bag and spend more time there. I like marmots. And they like me - stay tuned for updates!

4wheelbob

#58

Maybe the granite is smooth but not the trails :stuck_out_tongue:
Bob, I’d love to do Leavitt Peak…makes me think of The Enchantments in WA state :slight_smile:
And cough, wheeze, guys, Bob does more than 1.5 miles of Touron Trail. I think you need to see more that it can be done.
Heck, my 8 year old son was doing 12 mile days at 6! And our Western trails out here are not paved nor flat in the mountains.
Oh wait! We have alpine…heheh!!

sarbar

#59

No, Im not saying he could only do 1.5 miles. Its just thats the only trail I can think of in GA that Im sure a wheelchair could get up and down, unfortunatly its also really short.Their are sections that you could roll on the AT, but they are between sections you probably couldn’t roll up or down. Right after the parking lot at springer heading towards three forks there is a downhill thats steep and rocky enough for people on feet, I cant see a wheelchair going down it. Or going up springer where there are some sections that are impassable for a wheelchair.

Id have to see what ya can do in that wheelchair to figure out what parts of the AT in GA would be good options. Its hard to tell what terrain he can go over…obviously, Ive never done it in a wheelchair, so I dont know.

Whats the steepest grade uphill? downhill?, can ya maneuver over boulders in the trail? size? Whats the minimum trail width? What type of terrain is best…sand,leaves,rock,talus,etc?

There are sections right out from springer that have 50+ degree grades, and rock or boulders that are 15" high or more jutting out from the mountain in different directions. I cant see a wheelchair getting over those sections.

bryan

#60

I don’t know too precisely aout the actual incline, by degree or %. But Leavitt Peak is bery rocky, loose, slippery talus and in places I’m told the grade is 30%. That takes some doing, its slow but imagine the surprise of folks who find me up at the summit! The Sierras contain some of the most challenging terrain around, anywhere. I get the advantage, though, of exposed slopes through much of the range, which makes route finding easier (I don’t always stay on a trail :slight_smile: ). But I only stop when I absolutely, positively can go no farther. The AT intrigues me because of the dense vegetation in places, and I’m a tree guy, for sure! I understand it’s pretty narrow in places, and that would probably be the primary limiting factor. I’ve seen photos of some pretty gnarly sections, places I would probably not even attempt, which brings us back to the original premise - I still won’t go crying for access, I’ll just go somewhere else, somewhere the trail and I fit just right!

Sarbar, if you do Leavitt, you can come down, cross the highway to the north side and do Sonora Pk, Wells Pk, White Mtn (not my bigfella, it’s another one), all around 11,500 or so and for a strong hiker it’s only a couple of day’s work. :slight_smile:

4wheelbob