Thrifty Hiking - Appalachian Trail

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#21

Daniel Boone did most of his exploring before 1800. In fact, he died way before 1850. What he explored was still true wilderness. Maybe you confused him with Davy Crockett.

Going into an outfitter, picking their brains for several hours and then buying on the internet is a despicable way to act. Outfitters are not information clearinghouses. They are in business to sell things. If no one buys they go out of business. Simply comparing prices is one thing, but using them as an extensive source of free information is completely different.

Crumanjm

#22

Keep that money coming in. Get another 50K or so, and I will do it for all you nay sayers. LOL. I’m loving it.

I have field dressed, skinned and eaten more animals including road kill than most of you could consume in a year’s time of normal eating. So keep them wagers coming.

Sounds to me like it’d be a good TV survival thing. Set 10 people or more loose on foot at Springer, point them toward Maine. Have the camera crews wait for them at road crossings, etc. Monitor their progress, and thus make sure they hike the entire way. Also monitor their spending to make sure they don’t cheat. The winner to receive say 100K or a million bucks and each finisher, who makes it and don’t cheat to get say 50K or so.

Anyway the whole point is that, it could be done if someone knows how to do it. Most people don’t. Most people have never field dressed or skinned anything and ate it. I’ve heard one dollar per mile as a good point of measure for money required for a thru hike. Now lets say, you do 10 miles a day, that is $300 a month----you can eat like a king for that. In fact, how in the world could one person eat that much, unless you are eating at Pizza Hut all the time, etc. So I think that a lot of hikers are hiking from Pizza Hut to Pizza Hut or from bar to bar and spending one heck of a lot of money. Your choice, you can if you want to, but you don’t have to. As for me, I slept a lot better outdoors than in some motel with filthy air conditioning and heating so why do it.

Anyway, this has been one heck of a fine discussion. And I hope that we have all learned a little something from it. I have. Thanks for all the inputs. See you out there.

:cheers

Maintain

#23

i think the angle everyone is missing is time frame. i’m sure that thruhiking could be done for free even, certainly not at the level of comfort most people are accustomed to, but nonetheless, i’m not as sure that it could be done during the regular time frame most people use…say six months? the time required to hike the miles would take away from time to hunt or scavenge, and you are much more being at the whim of what you can hunt or gather in the woods is not a sure way to keep moving at that pace.

grilledcheese

#24

Regarding time frame. You can hunt while you hike with your slingshot ever at the ready in a stuff pocket, where you can get to it easier. As spacewalker said, “snake crosses the trail, you hit him on the head and have him for dinner.” I see all kinds of game when I hike, birds, ground squirrels, etc. And if you hike at night you will see lots more little critters (out at night so the hawks will not get them in the day light) and snakes too (rattlesnakes are critters of the night and very good eating).

While most hikers are hiking to town, going to Pizza Hut or motels, you can be hiking and hunting. So in fact living off the land, one could probably thru hike faster as there would be a lot less miles to town, motels, pizza hut and the like. In short a lot less down time. And like I said, you hunt as you hike so you don’t have to take a break to do that. Skinning, cooking and cleaning your kill however does take time, however while you are doing that, your legs and feet are getting much needed rest and your body is recovering from the physical stress of hiking with a pack.

And BTW Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett did one heck of a lot of their travel on foot. As most of you know, who hike the AT, these mountains are ill suited for horses. The AT is supposed to be 4 foot wide by 8 foot high clearance (some places it is, a lot of places it ain’t). A horse trail on the other hand needs to the 4 foot wide and at least 10 foot high clearance. In short, horses in these eastern mountains are not the way to go. Trappers did use horses, they had to due to the weight of the traps and the skins they trapped.

Regarding confort. That is an individual thing. Some people are more confortable on a mountain than in a beer joint. I’d say a lot of hikers escape to the AT to hike, but do short jump back escapes into the world they know (motels, Pizza Hut, beer). In short, they let go, but just barely and are constantly jumping back. And that is okay. May each of us be so blessed that we can hike our own hike.

:cheers

Maintain

#25

This string has gotten ridiculous, at best… Enough chest beating and sword-fighting (not the metal kind either)…

Let’s be realistic for just a quantum of time… If ~2000 wannabe thru hikers leave Springer thinking to live off the land, you would wind up with a few things. 1) Land stripped of every conceivable and inconceivable source of food for about 100-200 miles of trail 2) Several incoherant and malnourished fools wandering about out of their minds 3) Several in local jails as they broke down and tried to steal from farmers or other sources, and they were carrying a gun , and 4) alot of dead bodies lying about from starvation, poisoning, accidents, and shootings by said farmers and other survival nuts.

If you want to break into the Burger King dumpster at 1:00 a.m., or lick grease traps behind restaurants, or “rough it” from the land, you will damage the reputations of hikers to follow, often irreversibly…being a responsible hiker and an intelligent one are important aspects of hiking…read the journals (no, not the movies) of Lewis and Clark, and Boone and Crockett, all were not as roughing it as you might think, and posessed skills that I doubt any of us have (I say this as a former U.S. Army Ranger). Plus, the “roughing it” mentality of “living off the land” was made in much more wilder times, and often damaged alot of the habitat as they went (Example: The campsites of Lewis and Clark can still be found, 150 years later, due to garbage and other refuse and damage to the areas).

So, if you want to “rough it”, then go to a truly remote wilderness, like Siberia, and hike there…plenty of wild game, and boreal forest, no stores, no restaurants, no hunting licenses. If you want to hike the AT or other American trails, please grow up, for your own safety and that of others, as well as the reputation and safety of those behind you.

christian aka airferret

airferret

#26

Maintain, I’m all for your little challenge hike. If you can do it, go for it. Ya might try talking to Eustace Conway, who as I’m sure you know was the subject of “The Last Real American Man.” He did hike the AT at a younger age and is certainly the one to talk to about pulling it off. I’ve spent some time with Eustace, and I’m sure he’d get a kick out of your idea, although I’m sure he’d laugh about the whole concept of it being a wager.

He lives near Triplett, NC not far from Boone on a large spread of land called Turtle Island. Look him up. Believe it or not I think he might have a website, too.

Cap’n

#27

This is just ridiculous. While I dont agree with a lot of the crap on here, airferret spoke wisely. I also know that Maintain cant hike the AT in six months for $100. I dont care how many critters ya skinned, or how long ya been livin in the mountains. I’ve lived my share in the hills too, ate game, whatever. Aint no way for $100. And I aint throwin in any money for the bet neither. Who has money like that to waste. Let this dude think what he wants. If you’re some huge mtn man, what ya doin on this website? I didnt think mtn men have electricity, much less the internet.

The Solemates

#28

What airferret lacks in dipomacy and charm he makes up for in common sense and wit. He had me LOL but I’ve also been accused of being a little warped myself.

Anyway that’s what I love about the hiking community…it’s that…ah…what am I looking for…trait most hikers possess…a kind of “I know what the hell I want and I’m going for it” attitude when they decide to hike the AT. The trouble is some of us take ourselves too seriously. While I enjoy a lot of the crap I read here, like Solemates response, it would be worth a few bucks to see this guy try and do it on a hundred bucks. BTW, Maintain has a good point…it would make a good “survival show” although it would probably piss off a lot of thru hikers. :happy

Skeemer

#29

If everyone was of the same mind, the world would be a very dull place indeed. Thank you to those who agree with me and also to those who don’t.

Remember that:

  1. Man was not meant to fly, if so he would have wings.
  2. The earth is flat and if you sail out into the ocean, you will fall off the side.
  3. Man is so special that God made the earth the center of the universe, so everything in the heavens rotates around the earth.
  4. The AT can’t be hiked from end to end on just $100.

See you out there. :cheers

Maintain

#30

If you really wanted to you could live for a year in american on less than a hundred dollars.There is tons of food wasted everyday in most metro areas.Grocery stores throw away bruiseed fruits and vegtables,and old meat everyday.Also most fast food resturants have packets of ketchup,relsh and mayo available.You could also beg,trade work or hit soup kitchens for good meals.So food sources are not a problem,but YOU CANNOT HIKE THE WHOLE AT JUST LIVING OF THE LAND!You could fish,hunt and snare the whole way and still be calorie deficient.Meat only has average of four calories per gram,so you would have to average about two pounds YIELD of meat everyday,and thats a awfully big rattle snake or alot of mice.Also you would be risking alot of potential food poisoning dressing and cooking so much raw meat everyday.Also you are betting that you never have to go see a doctor.And a pace of ten miles a day would take you about 8 months to finnish the trail so you would have to be hunting in the snow on at least one end of the trip.Sure you could bum your way along the whole AT without spending a cent,living of hikerboxes,found food and others good will.Bet Ill will wager you wont make it a month just living of the land maintain,how much did you last thru hike cost by the way?

Maintains claim

#31

Airferret,I don’t seem to remember suggesting licking grease traps. Frankly it’s extremely strange you would even think that one up. Have you ever actually talked to locals along the trail? Clearly you have not. Working for food would vastly improve the image of hikers, which is now drunken spoiled handout mongering unemployed spoiled brats. I agree with you that Maintain’s idea of walking along killing everything that moves would result in the destruction of the Trail. However the fact remains that you can, by trading manual labor for a food, hike the trail with almost no money. I have done it many times.

Blue Jay

#32

I have done it on the cheap (but more than $100) twice, not many. Sorry I got carried away. I will do it many times. There are many dirtbags out there, not just me.

Blue Jay

#33

Crows and starlings are legal to shoot in most states. Robins, sparrows, hummingbirds, and most song birds are protected by law, as are all birds of prey. Regarding killing snakes, since they predate shelter mice (and some are also protected), it seems a selfish choice to eat them, Mice, rats, and squirrels - help yourself.

However, with resources stretched as thin as they are already in the eastern U.S., leaving no trace while hiking does not mean leaving piles of critter bones at each stop, stripping all plants of everything edible, and hiking like there will be no one behind you. Ethically, living off the land while hiking these days is comparable to drilling for oil in ANWAR simply to keep fuel prices cheap.

I plan on finishing the AT sometime around 2012 - 1 section at a time, and I hope that those that have gone ahead of me leave something worth hiking through, and that those that are behind me, never notice I was there.

Stumps

#34

airferret said “if you want to rough it go to Siberia”…Nah!..that’s where the real challenge comes in. I want to see Maintain walk by the Smokey Mtn Diner in Hot Springs and resist the smell of bacon grease after living on squirrel stew and rat brains for a week. If you’re out in the middle of no where it’s too easy! This whole thing started over "thrifty hiking the AT…not some remote wilderness.

You wouldn’t have to worry about everyone “stripping the Trail” Hell, only 15% are able to complete it staying in motels and eating at MacDonalds…what percentage could do it living off the land? I want to see Maintain do it on a hundred bucks!

Skeemer

#35

I think we’ve gotten off topic a bit here, the original post was quite intreguing. I don’t think bearbait was considering eating shelter mice to keep the cost down. I’m more intersted in saving a couple bucks where possible. For instance when in town, the cheapest way to get a shower or laundry. Which towns are cheaper to mail-drop vs paying for overpriced ramen. In general, what are methods of being a thrifty hiker, not a 1800’s pioneer (shelter mice) or a vagabond (dumpsters)?

FeedbaG

#36

Hey FeedbaG (why the big G, General Mills???), at first I was insulted by the Vagabond shot, but then I looked it up.
Vagabond - A born wanderer who moves steadily on and occasionally takes a casual job. I see that you are correct, who would want to be THAT. Many of you have to have your showers and laundry when a collapsable bucket away from the water sourse works just as well. Showers and laundry (other than waterfalls) are a VERY recent invention. Many of you are just plain spoiled rotten. You want cheap, it’s not hard and you don’t have to eat lizads.

Blue Jay

#37

The reason why I put up this post was to, in fact, gain information about how to hike the trail without spending a lot of money, not necessarily how to live off the land by eating snails, lizards, rats, snakes, etc. Don’t get me wrong, the ensuing posts were good entertainment and fun to read, but I wouldn’t mind so much getting back to thrifty spending (maybe I should have been more specific).

Of course, there is no need for some of you to get so snotty toward others. Why knock how another person chooses to do their hike? Why think you are better than someone else when you can go an extra day without washing your clothes? There is no reason to look down on another person because they want to hike a different hike than yourself.

When I think back upon my hike this year, that is the one thing that really put any kind of spoils on it. The fact that some people cared so damn much about what others were doing. I, for one, am so glad that everyone is not the same on the trail. That was part of the whole experience that was more enjoyable at times.

So, please, don’t insult another person because of their own personal beliefs, in regards to hiking. We’re all here to share opinions and experiences, not to judge each other.

bearbait

#38

instead of taking zero’s in town, take a near zero in a shelter. after everyone leaves, take a stroll, enjoy the area around a shelter, warsh yer clothes on a stone like a cave man. rest and relax for free. grab a few things like free fuel when you find it, bath in the stream. pondering is free, movies at hotels are $10. i think you know the answers, they will come.

i would also say this is an intelligent question. i save money by using lotsa cheap stuff that is bought at Walmart. my sleeping pad is as much as $40 bucks cheaper at WalMart and doesn’t have a named brand on it. SOBOs i met thought i looked kewl and weekend warriors thought i was the man with the info. they dreamed of doing the whole state, and i was just practicing. my 1st state…i loved it and i did go to a hotel once. i will add, that it would have been cheaper if i had stayed on the trail the 1st time. i guess my training to thruhike has cost me 1k…and staying would have cost me a 3rd less in travel expense. but what do i know, i am just a “puss in boots” hahaha more stupid human tricks to follow, hope to see ya bear…yer the man!

burn

#39

I tried to resist putting my 2 cents in but the temptation was just to great. Old Elwood before he got caught stole equipment and food ( out of bear bags i’m told ). I think the man actually turned a profit too!

As far as there being starving dead bodies lying all over the AT, I doubt it. I had the hiker hunger real bad and if it had not been for towns and my morals, I could see myself
cleaning up the woods of all those dead bodies L. Those early pioneers had a large number of canabalism incidents. From the pilgrams to the doner party. Louis and clark came real close too. The term windigo was in common use among both the indians and the mountain men because of the many incidences of canabalism each winter. Hunger is a powerful motivating force. Many early hunter/gatherers did not make it through lean times and they knew no other way of life. It may very well be possible to do the AT relying on only what you hunted and gathered, but if you got to weak or injured or nature throws you a curve ball you might not make it.

As for how to live thrifty on the trail. I ate well in towns for very little most of the time. All you can eat
buffets were a great source of calories and protein. I stuffed myself and then hit the trail again! I doubt I stayed at more than 10 hostels the whole trip. At some point I realized that people were mostly dumping into hiker boxes and very few were taken food out. If your not picky you can do quite well and the hostel owners will thank you for taking some of it lol. My total food budget for the trip was under $1000.00 and I saved all the receipts just to prove it to! I often stayed out, however, for as much as 2 weeks at a time and blew through some towns without stopping. My only other real expense was replacing gear along the way (new boots, new poles, new pack, new filters, new sox, new shorts, etc). My total expenses for 28 weeks was just under $2,500.00, not bad considering my equipment failure rate (it seemed like everything I did not make myself, broke!). I also took advantage of the all you can eat for a dollar day old baked goods at the AMC huts and I made 6 inch high sandwiches at the Pinkham Notch Camp ( all you can eat for $7 lunch). I probably ate over $50 in luncheon meats! (I’m joining the AMC partly out of guilt LOL). If your smart about it and manage your resources wisely you can go a long way on very little money!

Good luck to all of you who are about to attempt the AT in
2004! Who knows you may even see me out there sectioning!
I’m thinking of doing a three week hike into Damascus for trail days too! I may even bring some outragious equipment and act totally naive (and omit that I’ve thru-hiked) just to see the reaction of the 2004 hopefulls (you got to have a sense of humor!).

Rick The Lone Wolf

#40

Elwood did turn a profit, indeed. There were a few times that he made up bogus stories in order to gain sympathy and money for food from people. He took advantage of a hiker couple in Hot Springs by telling them his son died in Iraq, and it really made me angry because I know this hiker couple was on a very tight budget.

I was very glad to hear of his arrest. I got a bad vibe from him from the start.

bearbait