I hope to hike in 05, I have heard a good way to save money is “Using and Cruising”, where you just slip into the hostels along the way and “use” the facilitys and what not and you can really save money and then hike to a camp place.
this sounds sounds good in theroy, but I wonder is the the “thru-hiker” way?
Regards,
Rory Monstell
Rory
Most hostels are run out of dedication to thru-hiking, and not to make a living. The people running them are good people with their heart in the right place. So, don’t stiff them by not leaving a donation or paying for the use of the place. It costs money to run a hostel, even if it’s in the basement of a church.
If you want to minimize costs, then limit your time and stays in towns.
Peaks
Yeah, and eating at a restaurant and not paying the bill is also a cheap way to do things, but it don’t make it right!!
Chips
Yeah, think about it. If you “use” the showers and laundry facilities, someone has to pay that water bill. At least leave money for that.
Jukebox
In the past, some folks would barter work to help pay for their stay. In 2002, I rehiked part of VA in season and stayed at the Holy Family Hospice in Pearisburg. It was full with over 12 hikers there both nights. The collection box collected like 3.oo in donations and a roll of tissue paper. Although the hostel was next to a Catholic church and heavily supported by a congregation that is quite small(it is inevitable that this great traditional hostel along the At may close) The caretaker, Bill, put alot into managing this place and some folks were put off by perceived zealotry and authoritarianism-so they responded by not contributing. Most of those staying at that time were college educated and well paid professionals with careers that paid at least $50.ooo or more per year. The toliet and shower facility were almost unusable due to wood rot and little money to replace them. The At has changed and many older hikers are hiking(retired, inbetween career changes etc) who have the $$$ to help out. Places like Holy Family Hospice are AT traditions and like The Place in Damascus, need preservation(for those hikers who are skilled in construction and want to help or help others interested in helping maintain these places. Also, The Place in Damascus was trashed and had a lot of people who were not hikers staying there. It resembled a bonafide homeless shelter. In NY, off RT9, Greymore Monastery used to provide hikers with a free room and AYCE board for a day or two-free at the time,principles dictated that no money was to be accepted then. But implicitly, they expected and needed some money be sent later on. For whatever reason, they are no longer accomadating to this extent. Hostels are great and a part of the At exper. but need to be respected and not taken for a yogi exper. Most thruhikers drink but not all,some folks who stay at the hostel may be hiking as part of recovery and its important to be sensitive to others. Finishing off the last of the second case of beer consumed by an indiv, for the day at 2:00 AM and waking up the hostel with a Rebel Yell or fart resembling a Mack Truck’s Jake Brake is uncool. Be respectful of what is offered and if occasionally pressed for money, clean up abit or make the offer to. Ultimately, a trail angel gesture would be for someone to donate shampoo, toliet tissue, cleaning supplies or unused energy credits to needy hostels. Maybe the AT needs to do an accessment of what the fiscal needs are of some of the older hostels so that a wish list could be publicly made. Peace and kindness to all,2 Spirits
2 spirits
Rory,let’s look at this in the reverse.If you were running a hostel and someone did that,how would you feel about them? All hostels depend on the people using the facilities,to kick in.People on the AT that give of their time and services,such as shuttles,provide fuel for stoves and food,do so of their own choice.Even tho they don’t ask to be repayed,it’s nice to kick in and make a donation.After all,the hikers that follow will be the ones to benefit.Can’t never tell,you might be one of them.It’s not Brain Surgery,giving(in my opinion)falls in the same catagory as Leave No Trace.Do all you can to make the AT a positive experience and, a memorable place for future hikers. Enjoy your hike in 2005.:cheers
Bill Harris
Don’t use a facility and not pay for it. That just spoils it for the rest of us. If a shower is not offered for free (for example Fontana Dam) ask the hostel owner if you can pay for just a shower, vs a night’s stay. Otherwise, clean up in the woods (well away from the water source), and slip into town for groceries and supplies.
I agree with Bill, this can fall under Leave No Trace. Don’t leave a bad impression of hikers in town. On this year’s section hike I heard too many stories of shuttle drivers being stiffed and hikers expecting something for nothing. They’re calling this the year of the “low and no-budget hiker”. It really just seems to be a trend over the last several years. Please don’t spoil it for future thru-hikers like myself (2009).
Kathy
If you can’t afford to hike the Trail, stay at home. You paint all hikers with the same brush, when you are too cheap to pay for services. Many places are now closed to hikers because of the behavior of a few. The Trail is a beautiful place to be and we want to be able to recall it as such, not tarnished by the behavior of a few.
Super Mom
Seeing how it’s Mothers Day,I have to relay this about a lady that lives in Franklin NC.In April of 2000 my partner and I were staying in a motel next to Shoneys.It was Sunday and no one was around.We wanted to get back to hiking but,the trail was 10 miles away.The manager of the motel gave us the name of someone that might help.We called and this lady showed up.Her name was Corkey Hansen.She was small in statue,silver haired and about seventy years young.On the way to the trail she spoke of when she was younger and had thru hiked.As she drove us, the more she talked of the trail, the brighter her eyes became.When we arrived at the trail,we both handed her money.She refused our offer,but told us we could donate to the hiking club in that area,if we liked.She accepted the money and,wished us a happy journey.That day in April 2000,Corkey Hansen taught me my first lesson in giving on the AT.I treasure that moment and,the photo of myself with Corkey Hansen.Happy Mothers Day Corkey.
Bill Harris
Trail life offers a unique period in one’s life when they can shun the gluttonous consermerism so prevelant in America today. But there is a thin line between being a bum and thru-hiker when you’re real low on the budget.
Integrity is the most important factor in staying on the thru-hiker side of the line. I believe that answering the consequence of resources you consume (water in shower, gas in ride) is of high integrity. But if someone offers it for free, then I don’t think you should feel bad about taking them up on it.
The people who give away free things and then ask for donations are also teetering on the integrity line. They probably couldn’t get a business liscense, or they intentionally allow for some hikers to slip through who truly can’t afford to repay for what they’ve been given. There are some very kind spirits, and it is wise to repay them, if not financially, with some other gifts of thanks.
Be positive, and good things will find you always. And don’t look at my burrito while I’m eating.:lol
Tha Wookie
I have to take issue with Wookie’s line above about donation-only hostels “teetering on the integrity line.” This is profoundly insulting to folks such as Bob Peoples at Kincora, whose by-donation-only hostel is probably the finest hiker facility on the Trail. There is nobody out there with more integrity than Bob; his place is by donation only by his choice, and this is the case for other service providers who provide lodging, shuttles, etc., on a donation basis. If these folks are “teetering”, then some of them are teetering financially because all too many hikers assume that “donation only” means they don’t have to leave a cent.
This is assuredly NOT the case. If you use services, pay for them. If a donation is expected, then make sure you give one, and if you’re in a position to do so, give extra, to make up for the legions of freeloaders. But make no mistake about it: The Using and Cruising method described above is nothing less than theft, and it’s caused all sorts of places to either shut down, or to change their policies regarding payment. The folks who run these businesses are hardly ever in it to get rich—they do what they do because they enjoy meeting and helping folks, and because they enjoy hikers. In many cases, they ARE hikers. But taking care of their kindness by using their facilities and screwing them out of a few bucks is about as low as it gets.
Peaks is right—the best way to save money is to limit the number and the duration of your town stays. But saving money by cheating folks out of expected and perfectly reasonable user fees is not the way to go.
B.Jack
B-Jack
Perhaps I should have explained better. I didn't mean that the people offering donation-only hiker hostels and shuttles are of questionable integrity. People like Bob (although I'm sure he can speak for himself Jack) and Miss Janet are precisely not who I'm talking about (at least not from my experience). I do however, take issue with psuedo-angels/businessmen who do not clearly indicate whether they are there out of business or pleasure, but then proceed to badmouth hikers for not paying them.
I'm not out to defend or offend anyone in particular, but there were times when I wished I rinsed off in the creek instead of listening to constant complaining from those presumably selfless souls out to help hikers. I did always put money in, but because they were under the non-profit radar I had to listen over and over about how previous hikers are so cheap, how they didn't pitch in, how they are bums, and so on. If a person relies on donations, then how can they complain? I think it is teetering on an integrity line, as some people have "given" me help, only to unexpectedly sneak in a big speal about donations at the end, as if they were "hiding" the charge until I took them up on the offer. I would have offered them money anyway, but they insult me and my hiker friends by badmouthing them right when I'm digging for my money anyway. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they would just say UP FRONT how much it would cost, then fine, instead of firing out undeserved guilt trips.
My overall point is that I agree that many people "freeload", but many times the service fees are hidden under a "donation only" policy, which seems to be a less and less financially sustainable policy as the trail attracts more and more hikers who don't "get" the donation thing. If someone absolutely requires a donation for a service, then they might consider CHARGING for the service up front. There's nothing wrong with that. They can easily do a sliding scale, or work-for-service, if it means the vitality of their hotel/shuttle/whatever.
If I was out of money, and someone offered me something free, and I took them up on it, I wouldn’t feel bad about not “donating” money to them. This has never been the case for me, but ultimately it’s not my fault how they chose to set up their manifest or latent business.
Nothing here is a blanket statement intended to cover every business or “donation entity” on the AT, so don’t get too defensive before considering. Truly, most places, like Kincora, are great and very straightforward. But the hiker seems to be the one always in blame when many service providers are fairly obscure in the way they aquire money. On my next AT thru, I have a mental list of services I won’t support, because I’m not returing for another round of misplaced guilt trips and hiker-bashing.
One of the best things I liked about the PCT: there’s not a bunch of signs everywhere telling you what to do and not do at hostels, and I heard no complaining (although there were some fierce angeling-district battles). They usually had a set fee, or wouldn’t take one at all no matter how hard you tried.
Tha Wookie
“If a donation is expected, then make sure you give one.” If a donation is expected it is no longer a donation sir.
Cogswell 00
Donations are indeed voluntarily given; that is essentially the definition of “donation”, Mr. Cogswell.
But this doesn’t mean that one can’t expect people to help pay their expenses by contributing a few dollars, and that is precisely what should be done when one patronizes one of these places.
I’m not sure what your point is, Cogswell. An expected donation is still a donation; there’s nothing inherently wrong with service providers expecting hikers to share the costs of the electric, water, or auto fuel that they help consume. The hiker is “donating” in order to keep the place open and operating, so that other hikers that get there later will still find those services present when they arrive. If hikers don’t wish to stay at these places, well they don’t have to. But to stay at these places and not leave a cent is a horrible thing to do, so I hope you’re not saying that one is morally entitled to leave nothing at a “donation” facility. Or let me phrase it another way—if this is what you ARE advocating, I have to disagree with you.
Or let me try it another way: If there is a set fee for services, then hikers should pay them. If services are provided with the understanding that the hiker will contribute a small sum in exchange for receiving certain services, then the hiker should always pay them. If hikers are asked to decide for themselves what a service is worth and to pay accordingly, then they should make every effort to do so.
To ask for, or to receive services that you KNOW have a cost, but to pay nothing, or to defend one’s right to pay nothing, is selfish and thoughtless. This is how good hiker services come to close their doors.
B. Jack
Isn’t this thread a troll?
Although I have to admit it probably reflects the behavior of a certain number of hikers.
Bob
Whether or not the poster is a troll or not, I thought it would be worth mentioning that WeatherCarrot has posted an excellent thread on having a cheap thru-hike. You can find it over on Whiteblaze.net under the article section. His info is great, and its not geared around ripping off businesses or stiffing hostels. Its simply good info on the cheaper places to stay, eat and buy from.
I hope the poster is in fact a troll, because it’s terrible for someone who hasn’t started their hike yet, to want to cut corners and screw people over. I did witness a couple situations where hikers didn’t give to hostel donations and it seemed as if most of those folks ended up running out of money anyway. To me, if a hiker doesn’t eventually learn the way of the Trail and realize the community aspect and that it is one big ecosystem where everyone relies on one another, then they haven’t learned or gotten very much from the experience. If that is so, then they are IMO poorer, not richer, even after stiffing companies.
A-Train
One reason shuttle providers might not be comfortable quoting a price, especially over the phone, is because some bureaucrats working for the National Park Service or US Forest Service who have nothing better to do harass them to get a permit in order to provide their services. They are often also harassed to get outrageous amounts of liability insurance and to fill out a constant stream of paperwork–all just to provide a little service to hikers and break even or maybe make a little extra money. Ain’t too many getting rich off of hikers, that’s for sure, and most anyone who would pay these fees and related costs would surely end up in the red.
So the next time a shuttle driver is not clear about prices, if you are being picked up or dropped off within NPS or USFS boundaries, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are NOT expecting you to pay. They may just be trying to avoid entrapment.
You should ALWAYS offer to pay. The going rate, in my experience, is about a dollar a mile. Yeah, some do it cheaper, and if that’s really their bottom line consider yourself lucky. But you should offer the dollar a mile. With gas prices skyrocketing, it’s doubtful a dollar a mile will be relevant much longer, and a dollar may be a bargain.
“Skyline”
So shuttlers are bums for not paying for their permits to the NPS or USFS correct? I rest my case.
Cogswell 00