What is wilderness anyway!

imported
#1

I think it is hilarious about thru-hiker sensitivity to cell phones. (Just for the record, I don’t have one.) I expect I will experience planes, trains, and automobiles. Not to mention noisy hikers, farm animals, and heaven forbid; trail towns. What about man made shelters, trail signs and overused campsites? Wilderness? I don’t expect to find true wilderness on a blazed trail that’s used by 4 million fellow citizens. I will enjoy my AT hike. I will enjoy meeting others. And I won’t allow myself to be offended by anyone, or their dog, or equipment, or bright textiles. This is the nature of the AT. Let’s be realistic, accepting and open minded.

Dave

#2

I find them offensive and an intrusion on my life. sure, there are all kinds of things one can be offended by. I am not offended by the cell phone itself. I am offended by the people using them. So, if you bring a cell phone please have the kindness to walk away from others and call whomever you need. There are a lot of things I enjoy doing (safety meeting anyone) but I will do my stuff away from people that are offended. it is as simple as that. If you bring your dog, which does not offend me, you have to be ready and willing to stay away from water sources with your dog, stay away from shelters with your dog… It is not the dog that offends but the careless nature of the owner of the dog.

Peace

ASWAH 2000/2001/2004

Aswah

#3

Some people visually impact others in a negative way and polute the planet with their visual ugly appearance. After all, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder; or in this case, not in the eyes of the beholder.

Likewise a person’s voice or manner can impact others in a negative way.

The wilderness experience does in fact sometimes come with other people, their dogs, their voices, their beauty or lack thereof, their cell phones, etc. If you want a real wilderness experience without the above, then the AT may not be where you want to be and to hike.

Some people let things bother them, while some people could give a hoot regarding how ugly your are, the whine in your voice, your dog and what it does, and your cell phone.

I suppose it sort of boils down to this: If you really bother me, then who really has the problem? Is it you and your cell phone, or is it me and my beliefs and dislikes of them. So if people feel that strongly that they are being bothered by others, then perhaps they should get off of the planet or the AT at least. On the other hand, it really is nice to be have a little consideration for others and show others some respect. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

See you out there. :cheers

Maintain

#4

When you settin’ out man? It’d be great to meet you along the trail.

Ross - March 24th

Ross

#5

The latin root of the word, “wild - doer- ness” means “place of untamed beasts”. Then there’s capital “W” ilderness, which was set aside by US congress under the 1969 Wilderness Act. That land has special regulations on grazing, roads, mining, and logging, and is place where “man should visit… but not remain” and should leave it “untrammeled” (Wilderness act). The AT traverses through some notable wilderness areas, such as Raven’s Cliff wilderness, and SMNP wilderness study area. Most guidebooks will let you know when you’re there. Of course, most AT land is not designated Wilderness, and have varying degrees of development. My opinion is that, when in wilderness areas, where people go to escape the “trappings of everyday society” and submerge themselves in a natural environment, it is respectful for hikers and others to minimize the representation of the modern world as much as possible. Only in Baxter State Park (Katahdin) are cell phones and the like illegal. A little common courtesy goes a long way.

Tha Wookie

#6

23rd or 24th of March… I’ll see ya out there… Maybe we can knock back a couple pints along the way… oh, when you hit the Kennebec river hitchhike left down the road to North Country Micro Brew…

from 2000 I wrote:

Northcountry Microbrewery, the promised land. It took forever to hitchhike from US 201 to the brewery. We convinced Sonny and Gummo to join us. We arrived at the micro brewery. Had a big lunch and started hitting the beer hard core. After we got settled into a cheap room for the five of us we went to the hot tub. There were seven or eight ladies in the water. When the five of us dirty hippie longhair types, and short hair types, jumped in they left. We didn’t try to scare them off. Perhaps it was the way the blue clear water muddied and turned grey. Perhaps it was the random medical waste (i.e. bandaids) that floated up. Maybe it was the twig that floated up. Non the less we had the hot tub to ourselves. The bartender brought us drinks out there. So cool. Three folks from New York jumped in with us. The larger dude, Ryan, could do perfect Cartman imitations and Chris Farley imitations. We laughed our collective asses off. The dude was funny. Into the sauna we went. Wherever we seemed to go the bartender would follow. By this point we were drinking harder drinks. I switched to Vodka. God Bless them Ruskies!!! We drank to oblivion. Somewhere in there we had a steaK dinner and drank more. I remember trying to convince the bartender to drive us to Montreal to go to a strip club. We never went. The night finished with TV watching and more drinking. And talking with all the freaks at the bar (river raft guides… no worries bro’).

Aswah

"As to when I shall visit civilization, it will not be soon, I think. I have not tired of the wilderness; rather I enjoy it’s beauty and the vagrant life I lead, more keenly all the time. I prefer the saddle to the streetcar and star-sprinkled sky to a roof, the obscure and difficult trail, leading into the unknown, to any paved highway, and deep peace of the wild to the discontent bred by cities. Do you blame me then for staying here, where I feel that I belong and am one with the world around me? It is true that I miss intelligent companionship, but there are so few with whom I can share the things that mean so much to me that I have learned to contain myself. It is enough that I am surrounded with beauty…

Even from your scant description, I know that I could not bear the routine and humdrum of the life that you are forced to lead. I don’t think I could ever settle down. I have known too much of the depths of life already, and I would prefer anything to an anticlimax…"

  • Everett Ruess

-Aswah

Aswah

#7

I agree you can’t let everything bother you or you will be bothered… but I also think one should be considerate of the others around you. The AT to me is a social microism of our culture. In 2000, at least in the circles I hiked with, nobody cared if you were 15 or 85, gay or straight, vegan or not, etc. everyone was very cool and laid back. Everyone seemed to be very helpful and thoughtful of the trail community and our impact upon it. I think to bring electronic devices on the trail and use them without regard to others is incorrect. Sure, I rarely camp at shelters BUT i also try to be considerate of others. I carry a MP3 player with external speakers. I never ever would think of playing music or listening to NPR if there were others around. So, the cell phone is not the problem. It is the person with the cell phone and how they choose to use it. Yeah, I would be pissed off to have to listen to a damned phone ringing out in the woods; or someone with a portable TV in the woods. Do i care whether or not someone walks with one in their pack for whatever reason… no… you are the one who has to carry it. Respect. And on thge dog issue… in 2001 I had my tarp knocked over two times in a row by a dog whose owner just let the dog run loose and bark at everybody and foul up the water supply. I do not blame the dog, he was being a dog… I blame the owner and I find that person inconsiderate of everyone else. So do unto others as you would have others do to you… Peace and Respect and much love in 2004…

Aswah the Ignorant

Aswah

#8

There are things you can control and things you can’t. To complain about the weather is ridiculous (sp?). You can not control it so why bother being annoyed by it. I can not force the airplanes to stop flying over the AT so I will not be bothered by it. But as far as things we bring it… cell phones, dogs, etc. advertising in shelters by local businesses… I do find that offensive. Like I said already… it is not the phone but how you use it. True the AT is far from a wilderness experience. To me it is more like the Dead parking lot scene moving NOrthbound… When I hike the CDT than I’ll go for solitary experiences… I knew a few people who carried phones in 2000, and never did they ever leave it turned on while walking or use it in public. Well, there was one time at a Gap where we called in a pizza order with the phone… Hey, but I don’t own a phone in chicago or a TV so …

Aswah

#9

Thanks for your comments.

dave

#10

In 2000 A certain hiker, attached himself to me after traildays.WE were both in the daleville area, Without even word he just assumed he could hike with me and follow me into town. This hiker is a great person, in general, but he had a tendency to tell tall tales around the fire. At this point let me say, I love meeting and being with people on the trail, but generally I am a loner of sorts. During my hike I never really attached myself to group of people. I moved easily in and out of all sorts of groups. The Slacpackers, the older and the younger, the sober and the not so sober. Anyway after about 3 weeks and most of the state of VA, I decided I had to lose this person. The mistake I made was not being forthright and telling him, Hey your a good kid, but you cant hike with me day and night. He began to impact my hike, I finally let him get ahead of me one morning in PA. He left the shelter area first, and I didnt leave for another four hours. I only saw him once for five minutes in NY the rest of the hike. I guess my point is, I tried to let things roll and gave the kid the bene of the dought. Hey this the AT everyone is supposed to like each other. It didnt work. If something or someone is bothering you, it is possible to get away from it or them, but I will not let it ruin my hike. If I have to tell you to get your dog or your mouth under control Im gonna.

Chef

#11

Aswah
Your comments re: the hot tub (running off the ladies, hygeine, etc.) seem to nullify any argument you might make re: cell phones. Just an observation.

Daddybo

#12

wilderness is the mindset of the traveler who finds the time for solitude amidst all the things you list. Every bend that isnt blocked by shape, structuree, or the hand of man holds a place of growth for the spirit and mind that chooses to humble themselves enough to enjoy it.

Wilderness is the place that you go inside of yourselve once you are away from the trail and sourrounded by those who have yet to let their lives fully develop so they can see past the things that complicate the simplicity of life.

Wilderness is everything.

Lion King

#13

That’s right, Lion King

Tha Wookie

#14

I was taking my daughter backpacking this weekend, and before we could go we had to stop at the Division of Forestry and pick up a camping permit. On the same road, we had to drive past the Arvah B. Hopkins generating station for Tallahassee Utilities. I pointed out the plant to her, and her response was: “It’s beautiful!”

And she is right, it is. The picture at that link is rather small, and doesn’t do it justice. I’ve driven past the plant in the early morning when the sun was just beginning to brighten the sky behind it, coloring the clouds pink and orange, and giving the plant a perfect backdrop for its rectangular blue buildings and orange and white smokestacks. The perfect touch was added by a silver jet plane taking off from the airport away in the distance, cutting a straight line across the sky with its white quantrail. Looking at that, I felt a sense of reverence for the mind of Man and his ability to harness the forces of nature. I felt joy at the sight of human accomplishment. And I felt a sense of satisfaction in the visual confirmation that the beauty of Man’s works is in harmony with the beauty of the world.

If a person is going to the wilderness because he can no longer find beauty in the works of Man, then, imho, he’s lost something. Whatever it is in my 7 yr old daughter that makes her exclaim, “it’s beautiful!” at the sight of a power plant; whatever it is in my son that makes him fascinated with trains, airplanes and trucks; the person taking refuge from civilization has lost that.

I believe that what he’s lost is the sense that Man belongs in this world, as he is, with his skyscapers, automobiles, railroads, jet planes, cell phones, and all. He does not experience man as a natural phenomenon, but as something foreign and parasitic–an invasive species choking out the native growth. Children have to be taught to feel that over time, it doesn’t come naturally to them. I hope mine never feel it.

Ardsgaine

#15

In God’s wildness lies the hope of the world - the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
– John Muir

Tha Wookie

#16

yeah medical waste was offensive… It’s funny no matter how much you wash you still will leave a brown ring in the tub…

aswah

#17

Ardsgaine, you are correct.

I hope your children never lose that sense of wonder and amazement when they view these wonders, wheather man made or natural.

Driving across the desert in the southwest, I am amazed at the skyscrapers growing up out of the desert as I approach a major city.

I am also touched and amazed when I can experience and see something, which has not be touched by the hand of man, the wilderness and the animals and all the beauty therein.

To a intergalactic traveler, this little planet we live on would be all wilderness.

May I never lose my sense of wonder.

See you out there.:cheers

Maintain

#18

Wilderness travel huh…I suggest a good book that might open peoples eyes to real wilderness travel (not that your eyes are not already open…you know what I mean…it’s a good book) called “Adrift” about a guy who’s boat sinks while sailing solo across the Atlantic. He survives for 76 days on his rubber raft on one of the most vast wilderness area’s on this planet. The book is very touching, his relationship with the ocean and it’s inhabitants touch on what we consider wilderness, what we consider hardship. Reading it (for the second time now) has shown me that however hard I think it’s getting, it could always be worse. His mental resolve and courage is staggering, much like that of a thruhiker in some ways I imagine. Yep, it’s a goodun. Thanks for the book Uncle Johnny (I swopped it with the Castenada book I’d just finished…in case you thought I stole it).

Ross

Ross

#19

“Only to the white man was nature a “wilderness” and only to him was the land “infested” with “wild” animals and “savage” people. To us it was tame. Earth was bountiful and we were surrounded with the blessings of the Great Mystery.”
–Luther Standing Bear
Chief of the Oglala Tribe of the Sioux Nation
from "Land of the Spotted Eagle

TJ aka Teej