Winter Gear Vs. Weight

imported
#1

I think that anyone leaving for Springer in Feb. or March should consider comfort while Winter Backpacking more than keeping there packs at or below 40lbs.
I have been hiking in winter in Hoosier National Forest and Daniel Boone National Forest January and February and believe that good winter equipment is paramount to enjoying your hike. Gloves/Mittens and Facemask/Stocking Cap as well as Gators and Wicking long underwear are just a few of my required winter gear.
Any One have anything to add?
Cross

Cross

#2

A really warm down bag. Temps in the Smokeys were in the tens at night with -30* windchills. Our best buds Monty and I-40 had Mountain Hardare 0* bags with the water repelant cover. The were warm, we froze beyond death in +20’s. Look at it this way. In the winter you hike for twelve hours and spend twelve in the bag. If you like your sanity, get an over rated bag until Harpers.

Bramble

#3

Am new to this sight. WF is no more so I found this one. As to winter gear, I started from Springer March 2nd. Had a 0 down bag two sets of thermals,fleece, gloves hat etc. Pack weight with 4 days food, and gear with 60 oz h2o was 38 lbs. Pack stayed at or near 38 lbs for entire journey. What gear was shipped home was replaced with food. Had many many cold days and nights. If you are cold natured like I am, take plenty of stuff. If you take more than you need, you can always ship it home. The gear and weight thing is ongoing. Have some rough target and ignore the rest. The trail will teach you what you need to know.
Snowman Ga–Me 01

Snowman 01

#4

neck gator, dry socks and a sence of adventure. Cold is mostly mental(except for poor cold sleepers like myself then I have no clue what it is at night).

scott02

#5

I left feb. 3rd this year. I had a 40 pound pack at start. I was carrying 20 pounds of food and that was too much. You can get by with a 2-2.5 pound day diet if you select food with care…And as such, your food bag should never weigh much over 10 pounds. You can also get by with less water in the colder months since you won’t sweat so much if you are careful with heat regulation. Lots of moisture will escape in your breath, but still, I was happy with just a quart of water at times in my pack, and sometimes, no water just hydro-loading at rest stops. Clothing is important, layering is the most versatile system, but on the trail, you’ll learn there’s ways to tweak the system. There’s stop and go clothing. Down sweaters (w/hood) are super warm and light and good when not hiking and in camp. a synthetic upper tight t-neck and wind-shell, gloves, balaclava, are crucial for cold days on the trail. Don’t over do clothing and get stuck with too many intermediate layers, but then again, better to start safe than be sorry… As for pants, synthetic running tights, shell, and don’t forget the down bag. Good luck!

Sweeper

#6

Winter brings on some special challenges. Like knowing when it’s time to add a layer; when your ego says I can do another ten without stopping to eat and there is a foot of slush on the trail, common sense says you already can’t feel from the neck down, stupid, time to hit the shelter and get a fire going. Our friend BoyHowdy froze his hands in the Highlands and was trying to light his stove with his teeth. He thought he could make it over Mt. Rogers and beat a storm…got lost, lost half his map to the wind. Not good but lesson learned. We learned to take warm spells with a grain of salt. We had sent back our 0* bags after sweating the first 2 weeks on the trail, then regretted it big time in the snow storm in the Smokies. We had another warm spell in early April when it was in the 80’s near Pearisburg, then a week later, it was back in the 50’s. As luck would have it, we missed our maildrop with our short-sleeved shirts and had to have it forwarded. It worked out for the best when the temps dipped back down. It’s a constant battle between weight and comfort, but layers work…pretty much what Sweeper mentioned. And when it starts to transition into spring, add a short sleeved shirt, but keep a long sleeved in reserve!

Bramble

#7

If you thruhiked the A T in 2001, please list every item of clothing you’d recommend for thruhiking the A T in the cold months of 2002.

ALBAR

#8

Gear list for one warm hiker and one frozen; wind block fleece balaclava, Gore-Tex shell gloves or mittens, glove liners, expedition weight fleece top & bottoms, three liners, three outer sox, wind block fleece jacket without a hood, some type of shell rain/wind gear(used alone on dry cold days with undies only underneath, plenty warm when moving from warm air layer), 0* or better down bag, Mountain Hardware Universe SL 0* was super(we didn’t have this one, another friend did and we would have killed him for it if we didn’t like him so much).

Bramble and Bushwhack GaMe '01

#9

I avoided most of the cold months during my hike, so I don’t have a trail tested gear list. In general, I believe a warm sleeping bag and good rain gear is important for safety. Other gear is mainly for your comfort, so it depends on your preferences. I prefer the freedom of a light pack, so I would do my best to keep it under 40, maybe 20-25 + food and water. (A light pack is a relative term during the winter.)

Making rain gear work is difficult. The waterproof/breathable fabrics work if you move at a slow pace, but when you thru hike you get into excellent shape. A comfortable climb up a hill can create as much heat as jogging, without even breathing hard (once you are in shape). If you want to test your rain gear before the trip, try jogging in it. During the cooler weather during my hike, I used a poncho with a rain hat, which was OK, but wind was sometimes a problem. I had a day with wind and pouring rain, that changed to snow flurries over night, which I was able to handle, but a little more protection might have been nice. Wind pants can provide some warmth even when wet and dry rapidly, and are breathable enough for everyday wear.

Vapor barrier:

Recommended for very cold days. (When you think it might be too cold to sleep.) Grocery bags for the feet between sock liner and outer sock, and a thin trash bag for the torso, again over a thin layer, but below the insulating layer. When I spent the night on Mt. Rogers, the temp was in the low teens with a strong wind, and a few snow flakes swirling in. My worn out 20 degree bag and relatively limited insulating clothing had me wondering if would be able to sleep that night. A vapor barrier helped extend the range of my gear during the unusually cold weather (late November). I was warm and cozy that night, and had a great sleep. (Why was I in Virginia in November? GA->Damascus,VA<-ME, 5/15/99-12/2/99)

Mosquito netting (for your head):

I haven’t heard of anyone else doing this, but it works for me. I tried using the netting during the summer, and the mosquito’s couldn’t bite me, but their buzzing kept me awake. I eventually took it off, preferring to just let them bite me and go away. It was a warm night, and when I took it off, I noticed how much cooler it was. The netting provides slight, but noticeable amount of warmth for just 1/2 oz of weight. During cold weather, it provides limited wind protection, and when you exhale, it warms your face. I only use it when sleeping.

Weather:

There is some good weather data for Grandfather Mountain, NC at elevation 4,600 ft. (www.grandfather.com). This can give you and idea of how cold it will be in the mountains at different times of the year. It gives the averages for different months, and allows you to search for the coldest weather recorded for a month. The all time low is -32 on January 21, 1985, however most years it doesn’t get much below zero. I used this site to estimate the temperature during my stay at Mt. Rodgers.

Does any one have experience using homemade alcohol stoves in cold weather? I have read that they don’t perform was well in the cold, but how cold is that? Mine seemed OK when it was in the mid 20’s.

Ted (Waterfall 1999)

Ted

#10

I used homemade alcohol stoves the whole way 2/3-6/25 this year. I found that the Don Johnston Photon pressurized burner model was a very good performer, and these were on 10 degree nights. The coldest night was just below 0 degrees (with windchill close to 40 below) at Overmountain shelter, did run into problems using my homemade stove, but I was also having to melt snow which really should not be necessary on the AT. Made it work though… So alchy does work in my opinion in cold weather. That’s interesting about the head-net. Used the head-net for bug protection and lightweight stuff sack in ME. Can’t say I was totally pleased with just having a head-net going up against the vicious ME skeeters. I’ll definately try the head-net in winter. Before, I slept with a fleece balaclava to reduce heat loss thru my breath, but not the most comfortable, and having to wear something that smelled of morning breath all the time… Ahhh, memories.

Sweeper

#11

My plan is to hike in a down vest and carry my old down
coat for camp. At night I can extend the range of my new
20* synthetic bag by pinning the coat and vest on top of the
bag.
Also I’m using a ‘survival blanket’(metallized poly/mylar)
as a ground sheet.
Make your stuff do double duty, where possible.

What’s the deal with using Titanium stuff for cooking?
I think Al is lighter, although it doesn’t hold heat.

Ken J

Ken J

#12

Ken, I dunno, if I think a down vest is necessary for hiking. Actually what I totally recommend in the way of warm clothing for hiking and layering (wish I knew this before I left) is merino wool underwear, I went the synthetic route, but wool seems to have lots of advantages over all that capilene stuff, too bad not as available. Down may actually be too warm hiking, and will be more prone to getting wet if active in it (and besides, the pack straps will compress a lot of the loft anyways I’d think). Even on the coldest days, I was fine hiking with a thermastat mock-t and shell. I had a down half bag and a down parka, both highest quality. I kept em the whole way. I think the down sweater is a keeper for round camp, you can wear it in your bag for extra warmth, maybe keep the vest too.

I started with an aluminum 2 liter pot and was all opposed to titanium. I ended up getting an MSR 0.8 L ti kettle and fell in love with it. Aluminum is definately lighter and much cheaper. I frankly have no qualms with it. But I got the kettle because of excellent size shape and features. If I found an aluminum kettle as perfect, I would have gotten that. Titanium is also much more durable and easier to cook with to some extent. If you have an aluminum pot that you’re happy with, I say no serious need to convert really.

Sweeper

#13

I still use my old BSA cookset, except I lost the Al cup.
Probably just bring the covered pot and fry pan on the AT,
plus a plastic cup.
I’m shooting for a 30 lb pack including 3-4 days food, plus
water. My initial estimate was 10# for tent, sleeping/cook
gear, 10# for clothes and 10# for food.

So far I have:

  1. 3# synthetic 20* bag
  2. 4# Coleman INYO tent
  3. 1.5# ThermoRest 3/4 pad
  4. 1.125# SVEA123 stove
  5. .2# pint fuel bottle, 1.2# with fuel
  6. .75# Pur Hiker, w/ replacement cart.
  7. 4.6# pack, old CampTrails external frame
  8. .75# sil/nylon poncho
  9. .5# Canon SureShot 38-85 zoom camera
  10. 1# down vest
  11. 1.5# down coat
  12. ?# old leather palm, wool gloves
  13. ?# GoreTex lined blue jeans(wearing these)
  14. Vasque Ibex GoreTex boots(and old Rocky boots in reserve
  15. ?# old acrylic sweater
  16. ?# old windbreaker w/hood (ultra light and packable)
  17. 2 pairs shorts, one duofold, one nylon, quite lightwt.
  18. ?# 1 pr. nylon wind pants (very lightwt)
    19 ?# one l/s shirt, one s/s shirt, both 50/50 cotton/poly
  19. several pr. socks (thorlo, fox river w/ liners)
  20. .2# old 4AA flashlight/lantern(might get a mini mag lt)
  21. 2 sports bottles for water, both lightwt. and 1qt.
  22. .25#, 2.5 gal water sack

Still gotta get wicking long johns, bear bag, repair kits,
first aid kit, journal, maps, and a few other things.
The weight sure adds up fast!

Should prove interesting to see what I can and can’t finally
take. If I get within 2# I’ll be happy. Lighter is better.
Good, comfortable boots are priority #1.(still breaking in
the Vasques).

Suggestions welcomed!-)

Ken J

Ken J

#14

Smart Wool makes the merino wool long undies…saw them in title 9 catalog, but I’m sure you guys can get them somewhere too! :slight_smile: They’re supposed to wick better than synthetics. Not sure though, we used capilene. But we did get smartwool socks after a while. We really liked those. Also really liked the patagonia silkweight stuff for summer. Their long sleeved one is good for a camp/town shirt to protect a bit from the bugs and the sort sleeved was nice for hiking. Dries really quickly…we usually rinsed our shirts out at night (away from the water source) and it was dry in the morning, except for some of the really nasty humid nights.

Bramble

#15

Duofold 100% merino wool crew neck long sleeves on sale for $24 at campmor. May be a good investment. Plan to test them this winter. Ken, maybe you can go with a long-lasting light weight LED light. I love LEDs, compared to halogen and kryptons, awesome battery life.

Sweeper

#16

Camping/hiking is mostly a sunup to sundown gig. I’m not
too concerned about moving around much at night. I have a
red LED keychain light for backup.

RE:Wool stuff
I like wool but it’s scratchy!

I found a duofold henley/yukon shirt that’s wool over cotton
at SierraTradingPost.com.

Also saw some wool longjs at SportsmansGuide.com… nice and
RED!-) They have some poly/synths too.

I still gotta call ATC HQ and get the maps/guidebooks special. Soon!

Taking out the ‘new’ Vasques for a 5 miler tomorrow. Also
taking the new camera for a spin.

Ken J

Ken J

#17

Ken, I hate itchy wool, the long fibers of merino wool though are wonderful! No itch for me! What you feel with itchy wool are the fiber ends, longer fiber like merino means virtually no itchy-itchy. Much pricier though. Cotton is fabulous for hot weather because no other material wicks as fast. But the cotton fibers quickly become saturated and heavy and wet- in cold weather, that’s dangerous- hypothermia. That’s one reason why everyone says “no cotton, no jeans!” I’d steer you away from buying that cotton lined wool underwear. 100% merino wool is optimal, arguably superior to the only other option I’d suggest 100% synthetic.

About LEDs and hiking, yes, hiking is mostly sun-up to sun-down, but in early spring and winter that’s like 5 seconds! Nah, not that bad, but I guarantee if you start early enough, you’ll find yourself cooking, reading, writting in the dark. hence the need for a long lasting light like a LED, I used a photon red LED in the summer as my main light cause the days were super long and I was basically just sleeping in the dark. In the early months, I suggest a white LED that makes camp chores easier and leisure time more enjoyable because you can distinguish colors and reading light is better. A Petzl tkka, zipka or white Photon 3 may be adequate. Just a suggestion. -Matt

Sweeper

#18

Currently my plan is to start in mid March, 11-15 or so.
Trying to beat the worst of the crowds, but avoid the cold-
est weather. RedBeard’s itinerary from last year(?) would
be perfect for me. I’d climb Mt. K on my birthday!

Got 4+ miles in the new boots today w/ new socks, too. No
problems. Training here in AZ is great, but it’s back to
the East Coast for Xmas thru March 9. Can I train at the
mall at sea level?

I got the red LED last year, since red doesn’t affect one’s
natural ‘night vision’ like other colors.

I’ll have to try the Merino wool sometime.

Ken J

#19

For those who have thruhiked the AT, in colder weather, do you recommend:
BOOTS -
-Heavier more solid boots (because of the load carried).
-Medium weight boot.
-Other boot.

CAMP SHOES -
-Insulated booties.
-Sneakers.
-Sandals and wool socks. (Are there any water crossings
in the first two months where rubber sandals would be
useful?)

I’m hoping to start my thruhike in early March, 2002, and your input will be appreciated.
-Other.

ALBAR

#20

Albar, one pair of Asolo AFX 535s which had 500+ miles before I started got me from Springer to Connecticut. So that adds up to roughly a 2000 mile life span on those boots which I think is excellent. Economically, boots beat out trail sneakers which at $60-80 get you roughly 500 miles thereabouts, the Asolos cost $150.

Problem is break in, sneakers are great to switch to once the boots kick the can, you’ll appreciate the breathability, freedom, comfort and light weight of sneakers in the summer. In colder weather, though sneakers could work, a full-grain nubuck mid-weight hiking boot is preferable IMO. Like the Sundowner or AFX535, they’ll be warmer and more supportive on dicey terrain, and if nikwaxed, keep out slush.

For camp shoes, I used sandals, modified flip-flops. I wore my two pair of socks that I had to keep my feet warm in camp. This worked for me and was lighter and cheaper than booties, which DO look nice though, but March is not too early, so I’d argue that you don’t need 'em.

One controversial system I implemented in winter that I’ll pass along to this thread is this, in winter/early spring, I rarely took off my wet/damp hiking clothing once in camp. Rarely was the stuff too saturated (and this is key: I put the dry clothing on top of the hiking clothing when I was still warmed up BEFORE CHILLING DOWN).

Like with socks, I put on my dry pair on top and wore the other pair dry. same with synthetic shirt and t-neck, I’d put my down jacket on, create a warm environment underneath the jacket that would cause the moisture to pass thru as vapor. This system worked for me. Hikers who took off their wet clothes which is often advised, found them frozen solid in the morning, so they’re still wet, but also frozen! You’ll adopt your own system, take what I say with a grain of salt, this may not work for everyone, but I observed that it worked for me.

Sweeper