AMC novice - Appalachian Trail

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#1

ok folks, I am a novice…be gentle.

i have no experience with the AMC fees and such. I did search journals and the forum as well as the AMC site. I seem to believe you can stealth camp under strict guidelines without paying fees. something like 200 ft off trail and away from water sources.

i know from journal experience, that people seemed to be over the idea of the drain so they chose to work for stay or even paid for private rooms, some camped and were charged $8. i just don’t have a clue as to what to expect. i need help planning for this section.

…this is not a challenge, or a test of your manhood, just a question.

burn

#2

Certain campsites in the Whites are $8/nt. But you can assist the caretaker with some task and stay for free most likely. Then there are campsites that don’t have caretakers, but I believe they are mostly in ME. Every NH site has a caretaker if I remember correctly. The only one that doesn’t is the Perch (about a mile off the trail) and a campsite near Madison on the Airline Trail which is suppose to be pretty shabby. Osgood also near Madison may be free as well.

Yes, you can tent pretty safely below treeline 200 ft off the trail. People stealth all the time even closer than that and are lucky. The place is not swarming with rangers though.

If you get to a Hut early enough, you can help out and sleep on your mattress in the dining area. I think they take about three thru-hikers. The plus side is food at those places. But try to leave before the staff puts on their silly skit.

The campsites are great. Bear boxes, outhouse, and platforms. Every caretaker has been very helpful. also usually near a pond (like Ethan Pond site). ME’s Speck Pond is worth stopping and rewarding yourself after the Mahoosuc Arm and Notch. Worth the $8.

Hope that helps.

gumwood

#3

First, yes, you can get through the Whites without paying.

If you get Wingfoot, he publishes the prices for huts and tent sites, as well as which campsites charge. Probably the Companion does the same. Check out the Companion at the ALDHA website.

All AMC facilities, both tent sites and huts, should offer work for stay. How much work you do depends on the crew. Some places, it is very nominal. A few will work your butt off. Maybe it’s just help set tables. Maybe it’s clean the stove after a week of grunge. And you get all you can get. I found it best to ask other hikers which hut crews rock, and which ones don’t.

The first AMC managed tentsite/shelter is Kinsman Pond. The last one in the Whites is Imp, and then Speck Pond in Maine. The USFS sites do not charge. Fee as I recall is $8.00

I’m told that there is a list of stealth sites at the Hikers Welcome hostle in Glencliff. As long as you follow the rules, you can camp anywhere. Restrictions are like no camping above treeline, no camping within 1/4 mile of any road or established campsite/shelter.

The toughest section to get through without staying at a hut is the section between Mizpah and after Mt. Madison. It’s too long to do in one day. So, you can stay in the dungeon at Lakes ($6 or $8), do a work for stay at Lakes or Madison, go off the AT to a RMC shelter, go off the the AT (down and back up the next morning) to a stealth site or other campsite.

Peaks

#4

You can find lots of detailed information about the AMC shelters and campsites at www.outdoors.org, the AMC website but I’ll summerize some of the info here.

In NH: from Hanover to Kinsman Notch the A.T. is maintained by the Dartmouth College outing club and they don’t charge fees or restrict camping.

The AMC maintains the A.T. from Kinsman Notch to Grafton Notch Maine, some sites cost $8 to stay in the shelter and to tent. Some sites are free. At all sites there is no camping within a quarter-mile except for the site itself. This rule applies to the Hut Sites as well. Outside this quarter-mile restriction camping is allowed 200 feet away from the trail and any body of water. The free sites are Eliza Brook Shelter, Osgood Ridge Campsite (non AMC) and Gentian Pond Shelter. The Randolph Mountain Club has huts and shelter in the northern Presidential Range that also have caretakers and fees.

In Maine you may find a caretaker but no fees. There are also some caretaker/fee sites in southern Vermont.

Celt

#5

I would post a couple of stealth sites that I remember. Is that a bad idea?
Also, if someone is on a thru-hike, I think that Mizpah to Pinkham Notch is definitely doable in a day. Once you get over Madison, it is relatively smooth sailing.

Bankrobber

#6

Posting stealth sites…I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone named “Bankrobber”. On my 02’ thru-hike I did work for stay 3 times. Once at a hut where they made me scrape out a freezer, and twice at campgrounds where I had to go dig up a tree and plant it near the privy. It was easy work but being charged/made to work at campsites was certainly annoying. I also avoided paying twice by stealthing once because I was soaking wet and the caretaker just felt bad for me.

Jersey Joe

#7

i thought i had read it right. Appreciate the help!

burn

#8

I stealth camped twice, did work for stay once, stayed in North Woodstock, and stayed in Gorham two nights (I slacked that section between Pinkham Notch and the Androscoggin River). The stealth campsites I saw seemed environmentally friendly. I do not think that it is illegal to camp in some. They just don’t want to have them published to the public.

Bankrobber

#9

Mizpah to Pinkham is nearly 20 miles. It’s a rugged 20 miles. The descent off Madison is not easy going. For me, it’s a full day to do the 12 miles from go from Mizpah to Madison Col. And it’s another full 1/2 day to do the 8 miles from Madison col to Pinkham. Lakes to Pinkham is 15 miles and is doable in a long day.

Peaks

#10

You can make it through the whites without paying…I did! I had very nice interactions with the “Croos” and did a couple of work for stays and some not very stealthy hammock hanging`to get through the section. Just like everything else on a thru hike… if you go with the flow it all works out. As my hiking partner said all the time “Good things happen to those on the AT Y0-YO!”

Yo-YO

#11

Bankrobber-I don’t think we were hiking the same trail man! Mispah to Pinkham albeit doable for the very inshape thru-hiker is not an easy day at all. In fact you’ll probably complete wear yourself out before IMO one of the toughest if not the most tough section of Trail, pinkham to gorham. I didn’t remotely think the section after madison was smooth sailing. It was about a 3000 foot drop that seemed to go on forever. Everyones knees were screamin and it seems the area around madison often produces thru-hikers getting injured and dropping out.
You must be made of rubber! :slight_smile:

what?

#12

sorry my name is not what? Anyway I did the Lakes to Pinkham (15 miles) and that day tuckerman ravine trailed me out pretty good :slight_smile: man that was nice

A-Train

#13

Last June I did a traverse of all the presidentials as a day hike. I followed the AT the whole way and was very happy to finally get to the road. It took me 14 hours with a day pack. I would not recommend it. The Prezes are beautiful and should be done slowly if you can get the weather and enjoyed. There are several protected areas on the ridge that a bivy or two could fit into on either side of Washington. The ridge is very busy though and you can run into hikers late into the day.

Big B

#14

It is possible to make Mizpah to Pinkham in a day if your mother is planning on meeting you in the Notch at eight pm. I hauled some serious ass, trying to avoid having my mother thinking I was dead somewhere in the mountains. The Whites brutalized me, but I think I got on a rhythm by Crawford Notch.

Bankrobber

#15

Am I the only person who thinks of a “stealth” campsite as a place to camp where once you leave no one would ever know you camped there? A campsite on a list would seem to defeat the stealth. I grew up hiking in the Whites and a well established campsite along the trail, sometimes with a fire ring and away from shelters and huts was called a “bootleg” campsite. Bootleg might not be accurate either because camping a quarter-mile away from shelters and huts is permitted in most areas.

Celt

#16

i have big problems with the way the AMC runs the whole system. they say all their fees are a function of the fact that the Whites are so overused and they have to take such intense steps to protect them. However, I’m of the opinion that part of the reason the whites are so overused is that the AMC takes hundreds of people a night into what they’ll concede is fragile backcountry and gives them warm beds and hot meals. Without the AMC hut system the whole White Mtn Nat. Forest would get a loss less use.

And given the prices the AMC charges, they price non-affluent people out of the Whites. I just checked the AMC’s Web site: hut stays are now up to $75/night for adults and $46 for kids. If you want to have a fun night out with a family of four, you could probably stay at the Four Seasons on Boston Common for less than you could stay at an AMC hut out in the supposed “backcountry.”

Weekenders or people who don’t know about stealth camping might find themselves priced out of what most definitely are PUBLIC lands. Many times there aren’t $8 shelter/tent sites conveniently located for thru hikers or others, meaning you’ve got a choice of stealth camping or a hut stay.

Furthermore, there are always more thru-hikers than there are work-for-stay spots! Fortunately, hut croos are friendly enough and will usually recommend a good stealth site. But doesn’t that throw us into a twisted conundrum when the AMC has to recommend illegal and potentially destructive campsites to people who can’t afford the only legal places to sleep!

I say a good compromise is to tear down the freakin’ huts, replace them with regular old AT shelters or tent platforms and I’ll happily pay $8 to roll my sleeping bag out there.

mariachi.

ps: i wrote a series of stories in the travel section of the Boston Herald about my '02 thru. here’s a snippet of a story in which i addressed the AMC:

In addition to steep hills, the group that manages and maintains the trail in the heavily used White Mountains hits hikers with steep prices. I hiked more than 1,800 miles without ever paying to camp, but in the Whites I found almost no place to camp both free and legally.

The Boston-based Appalachian Mountain Club has a series of tent sites in the region where it charges $8 a person to unroll a sleeping bag, but most thru-hikers at some point find themselves at the end of the day at one of the AMCs eight huts. The huts are actually small trailside lodges where, for $69, a hiker gets a bunk and a tasty breakfast and dinner. The huts have environmentally friendly features, such as solar power and fancy composting toilets, but they’re targeted at the well-heeled. Most thru-hikers ditch jobs or school for half a year at a time to walk the trail, making them world-class penny pinchers. Few can afford to pay $69 a night to sleep on the trail.

It’s possible to trade an hour or two of work for a place to stay, but there are generally more thru-hikers than available work-for-stay slots, and thru-hikers had best be prepared to eat leftovers and sleep on the floor. The one night I did work for stay, the thru-hikers sat like a bunch of stray dogs on the floor near the restrooms while the paying customers ate. After clearing the tables, we ate what was left.

The system prompts lots of thru-hikers to “stealth camp” in sites of questionable legality. One evening I hiked up to a hut only to find they had no more work-for-stay available, and the next legal campsite was too far off. So, on the recommendation of the hut staff, I pitched my tarp in a clearing just off the trail, possibly risking a fine if a ranger happened by.

mindlessmariachi

#17

What ever you do, don’t listen to bankrobber…Drop me a line Bankrobber casey7419@msn.com

SweetAss

#18

I don’t know if the right answer is to remove the huts or not. Some of them have been there for more than 100 years.

Now, the huts operate under permit from the USFS. Last time the permit was up for renewal,there was a lot of debate of their operation. So, if you have a strong opinion on huts, then the place to express your views is the comment and hearing portion of the permit process.

Peaks

#19

What day did you do your Prezzie Traverse Big B? I did this on summer solstice, June 21st, north to south. 14+ hours, yep. Nice day though…I even hit all the peaks this time around. Maybe I saw you up there? We ran into quite a few groups who do this annually.

Regarding this on a thru: for one thing Burn, don’t worry about it so far ahead. It will work. But for the record, as mentioned in the earlier informative posts above, the most problematic stretch due to its above treeline status, is from Mizpah to Pinkham. I went Mizpah to Valley Way Tentsite (which is .5 mile down Valley Way from Madison Hut). So essential Mizpah to Madison in one day and then the next was down to Pinkham. It’s not just a tough stretch, it’s a beautiful classic stretch that you don’t want to push. I had 3 unheard of gorgeous days through here, most lucky for a thru-hike. Since it was mid-Sept, Lakes and Madison were in shut down mode, I missed being able to stay at either by a day or two. Hence the hike down to Valley Way. There are 3 RMC huts as mentioned above that you can drop off the spine to as well. It amazes me that folks leave the trail at Washington and miss the Northern Prezzies, for ANY reason. Wait out the weather a day and get a ride back up the auto road if so, don’t skip this section (if you want to skip something, pick PA) :tongue
Just my .02

Bluebearee

#20

By the time I got to the whites I was so frustrated at the Appalachian Money Club! You can stealth camp in the whites, and if your on a hiker budget like the majority of us stealth camping is the way to go. I know that causes a little more erosion on the woods, but who has the right to put a price tag on a Mountain? I’m sure god would not approve. The AMC does advertise work for stay at huts stating that they have 3 reserved bunks, but the truth is they make you sleep on the eating tables in the dining rooms after everyone else is done. The employees at the huts and campsites are usually very nice, but they too are getting robbed. Minium wages plus having to pay for room and board. Meanwhile the A$C thinks its reasonalbe to charge $70 a night? You can go to a tropical island cheaper then spending a week doing the hut walk. Stealth!!!

buttercup