I’ve been trying to post this on pct-l for the past few days, but am having trouble.
I found Yogi’s book to be very informative, well organized, and extremely helpful for answering some lingering questions and preparing me for my '04 thru-hike. Thanks for such a great contribution to the hiking community!
Lindsay
I just received Yogi’s book and agree 100%. It is well written and easy to read.
Not only does it cover all aspects of the PCT, it contains a lot of just plain good backpacking knowledge.
The quotes from previous thru hikers don’t force anyone to believe that there is only one way to do things. They let you know what worked for them.
Great book and I hope she writes one on the CDT as well.
Ragnar
I also agree,
I just got yogis book and it has helped so much.
Thanks again yogi..:cheers
toastyjosh
yogi’s book has been a great resource in planning my 04 thru hike
cheers yogi and i appreciate the time you put into it!
mat
Mmm. Sounds like good kinky fun. Yep, Yogi’s book has created a big problem. For one thing it is now far too easy to plan a thru-hike. And for another, there is just too much common sense.
Peace,
Jim
Jim Keener
Yogi’s book is excellent. It tells you everything you need to know to hike the PCT. And one of my thoughts in reading it was was “I hope no one does the same thing for the CDT.”
More and more the PCT is becoming like the AT. That’s both good and bad. It is becoming easier all the time, with more and more hikers, more sense of community, more hostels, more trail angels, more information known beforehand, and also more hikers who are simply hiking from town to town, restaurant to restaurant, who want all the information handed to them on a silver platter so they don’t have to do any preparation or planning themselves. But something is lost - a sense of adventure, of discovery, learning to deal with uncertainty, the pride of self-reliance.
We watched the PCT video, “Walk” the other day and saw the groups of hikers take off en masse - practically in lockstep - and we both said to ourselves, “I’m glad we left Campo early, so we had the trail more or less to ourselves.” I loved the AT, but I hate seeing the PCT become like it. And I hope the CDT never even comes close.
But it won’t be long before someone comes out with “All you need to know to hike the CDT” and all the folks who buy it won’t even realize that they have lost an important element of long distance hiking when they accept the thought that everything you need to know about hiking a trail can be found in a book.
So Yogi, I think you did a terrific job (though there are some things I disagree with you about) but I’m glad I hiked before the book came out, and I’m so glad I was able to do my own research on the CDT with only minimal assistance from Jardine’s planner and Aldha sources. It was fun, reading a wide variety of books, searching everything remotely relevant on the net, talking to former thru and section hikers, and learning what questions to ask, and then just accepting that some answers I would just have to figure out as I went - because every hike on that trail is unique and other people’s answers didn’t necessarily fit.
But you should maybe think about this - long long ago and far away, Wingfoot once wanted to put out the exact same kind of book for the AT. And we told him that if someone were to do that, we wouldn’t read it because it would destroy our sense of adventure and wonder at what the trail has to offer. We have read Yogi’s book - but then, we’ve already hiked the trails, too. And the sense of adventure is no longer as sharp when we think about going back to do them again. In spite of the great job that Yogi did, there’s a sense of loss on our part - and there are others who have also lost some of that “sharpness”. The difference is that we know it - and they don’t. So they’ll never know what they missed.
Spirit Walker
People can decide what experience they want and go after it. One of the greatest things about the thru-hiking explosion (partly made possible by comprehensive guidebooks) is the increasing awareness of long distance hiking and of long distance trails. Every year, because more and more people experience these gems, more and more people develop personal attachment to them, and ultimately the social value increases. If it weren’t for recent cuts in Federal trail spending (thanks W), trails all across the nation would be recieving more funding than ever.
I don't doubt that the "big three" are getting more use. So what? They should. That's a good thing! There are thousands and thousands of lonely miles for the LD hiker that are never even mentioned on this site.
If someone wants to piece together all the info on their own, then they can do so. If they want to hike 2000 or 3000 miles without the AT-type atsmophere, they certainly can.
I remember meeting you just south of Shelter Cove, Spirit Walker. Do you remember me and Island Mama? On our 2003 PCT NOBO, we only met about 30 other LD hikers the entire time. You were one of them. There happened to be a group just ahead of us, and I remember you saying how many more hikers there were than you remember from previous years.
I completely respect your mileage and attachment to your past experiences. But I encourage you to let go of the past and look ahead. Don't you see what's happening? We are in the midst of a trail revolution! As more and more paths are funded, built, maintained, and used, a great trail network is being created that will stretch across the borders and corners of the USA and probably beyond.
I don’t think the PCT experience should be sacrificed for this materializing vision, but you must keep in perspective the good that accessibility can bring for the National Trails System as a whole. Never before have we had the opportunity to venture on so many quality paths. Who do we have to thank? Wingfoot is one of them like it or not. So is Brother Earl and the rest of the crazies. So are you, bro.
I’m not dimissing your statements. I do think you have a good point. But the trails need good guidebooks to promote a higher value for them as a whole. If people want to have the “sharpness” you had on the PCT, they can still get it. If they don’t want to walk in front of or behind the herd (like we did), then there’s tens of thousands of miles to be covered elsewhere. The only constant is change. And we have the opportunity to make it change for the better.
Tha Wookie
Spirit Walker- You did a better job in explaining it and I can see your point. But I think the bottom line (just like everything else) comes down to personal choice. I’m glad that Yogi made the book available because it really helped with my planning, but it did not hike the trail for me. And I think places on the internet like here and PCT-L fall into the same category. Its a community of past and future hikers that can exchange information. No one has to order her book, just as they don’t have to visit these sites. But because of these things I feel like I am better prepared.
If I pull this hike off, the CDT will certainly be on my mind. So will the GDT. I’ll be looking for more challenges. However, I will always want to gather as much information anytime I am going to spend five months hiking something.
This all kind of reminds me of the Star Wars geeks who contemplate on whether or not to view spoilers before each movie is released. Same thing, just different kind of geeks. But its a personal choice.
Ganj
“WE told Wingfoot … OUR sense of adventure … WE’VE already hiked the trails … loss on OUR part”
In the thru-hiking community, there are hikers who have an elitest attitude. They hiked the trails BACK IN THE DAY. Everything was harder then. They had to walk up to the summit of Katahdin and miraculously they walked uphill coming down, too. They had do do it the hard way. They had to do all the research on their own. They had to call the forest service, obtain the BLM maps, find the zip codes. They think that all future hikers should have the same hardships. Afterall, if my hike has fewer hardships than their hike, then well, golly gee, I guess THEIR hike was so much more of an accomplishment than mine.
I suppose by taking the knowledge I gained while hiking the PCT and putting it in print, I have destroyed THEIR sense of adventure, and created a loss on THEIR part.
Fine.
I’m happy to say that I don’t have any of those insecurities. Ten years from now, the PCT and CDT will be logistically easier to plan. That’s what happens as the years go by and more people become interested in long distance hiking. A book will surface for the CDT. Does that diminish the hikes people did 5 or 10 years ago? Of course not. Not if those hikers are secure with their accomplishments.
I had one goal when writing my book: To get more people on the PCT. That’s it. A thru-hike of The Pacific Crest Trail is an amazing experience. I hope to encourage those doubtful hikers out there to get on the trail. The PCT is not easy, but it’s do-able. And if I’ve helped people to decide that they CAN hike the PCT, then I’ve done what I set out to do.
And I could be mistaken on this, but I think I’ve got it correct: There was a book called “The Philosopher’s Guide” which was the original Wingfoot book. Someone else wrote it. Then Wingfoot purchased the rights to the book and expanded it. So the information was out there already. So when “THEY” told Wingfoot not to write a book . . . . well, that’s just nonsense. Because the book was already out.
“WE told Wingfoot … OUR sense of adventure … WE’VE already hiked the trails … loss on OUR part” ---------------PLEASE, let it go. You hiked the trails. Congratulations. But, you can’t keep them all to yourselves. Other people should be able to enjoy these hikes, too. But not everyone is organized. Not everyone can put the information together themselves. If there are books which help to plan a hike, that’s a good thing. It gets more people out there.
yogi
yogi
For years we have tried to help other people get out and hike the trails. We’ve been active on email lists, forums, Aldha workshops, and in private discourse. When people asked “What do I need to know to hike the X trail?” I’ve done my best to give them information so that they could do that. Jim’s Thruhiking Papers are an attempt to help more people reach Katahdin. I’ve blown more than one person out of the water with my 40 page responses. (NB - I’ve pretty much stopped doing that as I’m really not trying to stop people from hiking, I just get too helpful sometimes.) So I understand the desire to help others have as good a hike as we had, and perhaps not to make the same mistakes we made. That’s why we participate on the forums and email lists. We want to help people get out and have good hikes.
But at the same time, I see the trails becoming over-developed and over-civilized and I am sad that a lot of the sense of wildness and challenge is being lost. And we helped it happen, by encouraging people to go out, by making it easy for those who don’t know how to plan, by building better and more well marked trails. As I said, most people don’t even know what has been lost –
As I said, the changes are inevitable - you start with the PG, then Wingfoot’s guide and then the Companion, then forums that give you “all you need to know”, and then comprehensive books that do the same, in more abbreviated format than you get in forums. It happened with the AT, it is happening with the PCT and I have no doubt it will happen with the CDT. But as I said, for the hikers, something is lost - a lot of the fun, the challenge, the sense of adventure . . .
Yes, you can choose to not participate - but if the information is out there, that seems a bit foolish. Kinda like the folks who refuse to use water caches because it makes the PCT easier. Seems a bit silly.
I really wasn’t trying to attack your work Yogi. And yes, I know we can’t go back to days long gone. Sure I would like to have hiked the AT and the PCT in the 70’s - by the time we did both they were already civilized. The CDT was already so much better marked than it had been ten years earlier when we hiked in 1999. Jim would like to freeze the trail as it is - but I know that won’t happen. It will become better developed and better marked – too many people want that to happen. I just want to go out and hike it again before it becomes another PCT. And maybe I need to go out and find other trails that haven’t become civilized yet. Or go out where there are no LD trails and create my own.
Spirit Walker
Yes, Yogi - WE and OUR. Those last two paragraphs were mine - not Ginny’s. But that’s not the message. The message had nothing whatever to do with OUR sense of anything. It concerns only the loss sustained by those who follow. And our regret at our part in that loss.
But let’s start with this - the intent was not to hurt you - or to put either you or the book down. If someone had to write it, then I’m glad it was you. The only thing you lack is experience with a high PCT snow year - and you can’t get that until there IS another high snow year. But that’s coming - and there’ll be some really surprised hikers when it gets here. Other than that, it seems to be an outstanding collection of “everything you need to know to hike the PCT.” And THAT is precisely the kind of book that Wingfoot wanted to publish for the AT. But he never did - for reasons I won’t go into here because none of us need that kind of flamewar. The Thruhikers Handbook is NOT what we were talking about. So you’ve done what he failed to do. Congratulations.
Now - do you understand the consequences of what you’ve done? That’s what Ginny started - and I finished - last night. It’s not a matter of “keeping the trails to ourselves” - we’ve spent the last 12 years teaching others the same things that you put in your book. We know precisely why you wrote it. We also know what we’ve done over the last 12 years both for - and to - the trails. And the people. We know precisely what we’ve contributed to the loss of adventure, the loss of innocence - even to the increase in the “success rate.” We have no illusions about that. And if you’re the kind of person I take you to be - if you’re a “real” thinking human being - eventually you’ll come to look at what you’ve done with mixed feelings - you’ll know both pride and regret at the changes you’ve been a part of bringing about.
I’d suggest that you find a copy of Rudyard Kipling’s verse and look up “The King.” Maybe then you’ll be a little closer to understanding what we wrote last night.
Now - for the Wookie - the term “freedom of choice” is greatly misunderstood. You may not understand that the over-availability of information doesn’t increase the availability of choices - but rather decreases it. There are those who think that the “Wingfoot way” is the only way to hike the AT - and that the “Rayway” is the only way to hike the PCT. And each of those “ways” has become a mantra that has been blindly followed by a large percentage of those who hike the long trails. Do you know what “Rayday” is? So do I - and we avoided Rayday - and ADZKOP when we did our 2000 hike. Those things would have reduced our “freedom of choice” - and diminished our hike. And yet I blessed Tom Reynolds for starting ADZKOP because it gave us a 10 day jump on the bulk of the thruhiking mob - and made our hike infinitely better. And we were never once part of the scene on the Walk video that showed a dozen hikers starting their day in lockstep. We walked our own trail - and we didn’t have to smell the farts of the 8 people walking in front of us. 
Strange - I doubt if there are many past, present or future thruhikers who’d admit that they contribute to the destruction of the sense of “wildness” on the trails - but they do. They do it every time they encourage others to thruhike, they do it every time they help someone else to “get prepared” for a thruhike, they do it every time they offer information on one of the forums. And most of them don’t ever think about it - and don’t ever realize the consequences of what they’re doing. Progress is wonderful, isn’t it? Or is it?
Enough philosphy for today, gang - I’ve actually got work to do. And another thruhike to plan. Have a good day anyway.
Jim aka Bald Eagle aka Spiritbear
It never occurred to me that hiking the Pacific Crest Trail would be a wilderness experience. I think that non thru-hikers would believe it is, but not experienced outdoors people. And I think that’s true of all the Big Three. People wanting true wilderness experiences hike where there are no trails. And where there is little publicity. And they probably don’t write about it on forums such as this.
Information, if it’s true and accurate, has value. If it’s not wanted, it doesn’t have to be used. Will more people hike the Pacific Crest Trail because of the handbook? I do not know. But the people who do hike the trail and who use Yogi’s book, will be better prepared. And if you have not read Yogi’s book and are writing about it, you might want to order it from her just to keep a sense of self-respect.
Jim Keener
I have never thru hiked the PCT but I intend to do so beginning in May. I love to hike and being on the trail every day and waking up in the wild appeals to me greatly. I do feel the need to gather some information about what to expect. Most others enjoy gathering information a lot more than me so these forums are cool for that. I say right on. Do what you gotta do. What I don’t understand is the need to criticize other people for doing it their own way. I’m just stoked you all are thru hiking this summer. Thats a truly awesome way to be spending time. I look forward to meeting a few of you along the way. I’ll be the one with the fishing pole.
John
" the message had nothing whatever to do with OUR sense of anything." - I don’t get this at all. What you’re talking about is a perception of wilderness, YOUR perception of what’s going on on the PCT, and how future hikers’ experiences suffer because they won’t be like YOUR experiences you had. Your sense has precisely to do with everything.
You say that I don’t understand the effects “over-availability” (whatever that means) of information on choices for the LD hiker. You’re right, I don’t. And neither do you. But look around you! Count the number of LD trails, of rails-to-trails, and of the rise in popularity of trails. Options are increasing at a rate never before matched. Granted, maybe you can’t go start to hike the PCT and whenever you want for solitude, but you can hike tens of other LD trails that didn’t have the support to be completed ten years ago, but now have an active financial and manpower support base to give more people more choices.
If we were at our limit with hikable land, I would agree with you. Perhaps it will be so one day -It’s a lot like the overpopulation debate. But where not even close to running out of room for solitude, even for very long hikes.
To narrow the scope and talk only about the PCT, you do have a good point -cases of personal experience may be different due to an increase in thru attempts. But I would be careful in believing that too much based on what happened on the AT for the past forty years. I would also be careful in projecting your misanthropic sentiment on the future perceptions of experiences from other people. The point is, your hypotheses is very subjective and unfounded. I certainly don’t dismiss it -it’s a worthy subject, debate is good, and your opinions I respect completely. I’m not disaggreeing with your feelings. I’m saying “look at the bigger picture”. Then you can drop the personal negativism that is obviously fueled by factors that have not even been mentioned here. Let it go, and focus on brighter things! The only one ruining your experience is you.
Tha Wookie
Jim aka Bald Eagle aka Spirit Bear : You have made my point even more clear—that there are previous hikers who will never want any changes in the trails. You imply that unless current/future hikers have the same hardships/challenges that you had, then their hikes are somehow diminished. This tone comes through loud and clear when certain people post. And you will never convince me that since I didn’t hike the PCT in a high snow year, that I haven’t really experienced the Sierra.
Yes, I’m a “thinking human being”. But you’re wrong — I have no regret at “what I’ve done”. Your elitism is something that the thru-hiking community could do without.
Do I “understand what I’ve done”? Yes. I’ve made planning a PCT hike easier. You can spin this any way you want. But it doesn’t matter. If more people are able to have the experience of a PCT thru-hike because of my book, then I’ve done the right thing.
And how in the world can you assume that the people who hike in the future will have less of a hike than you did? That there will be a “loss” on their part? That’s nonsense. You can’t impose your perceptions of what a hike should be onto other people.
I’d suggest you take take a step back, read your post from the outside, then maybe you’ll be a little closer to understanding what you wrote last night.
Wookie : rock on, brother.
yogi
yogi
I’ve got about 5 minutes to do this - so —
For Jim Keener - if you asked those who intend to thruhike why they’re going out there, probably 9 out of 10 would include something like “spending time in the wilderness.” Regardless of which trail you’re talking about. I’m glad at least some people realize that it ain’t necessarily so. Thank you. Someday I’ll ask where you hike and we can compare notes.
For Yogi – Re: elitism - you know me, - we’ve talked face-to-face - and you sat in our CDT workshop at the Gathering. And you know that what you wrote is simply wrong. But that’s your problem – not mine. I guess you haven’t realized it, but YOU are one of the elite - you’re one of those who’s done multiple thruhikes. And it’s your responsibility to be setting an example for those who intend to thru in the future. Think about that.
Then there’s the “snow” thing - when you’ve hiked in a high snow year come back and tell us about it. The problem I pointed out was simple - you don’t have the experience - and neither did anyone else that you quoted. The attitudes in the book toward ice axes made that obvious. Maybe you don’t know anyone who needed an ice axe on the PCT - but I do. Maybe you should talk to Monk - or Dave Fleischman.
For Tarbubble - you got it. I’m glad someone does. I find it interesting that you got it, but the thruhikers didn’t. Thank you.
I wandered in here by accident - I didn’t come here to either start or participate in a flame war. And if I’d gotten a reasonable reception, I’d have been gone within a day or so. But under the circumstances - I think this place needs a different viewpoint - so I think I’ll stick around for a while. I’ll get back to the Wookie when I have time, cause he NEEDS an answer.
Jim aka Bald Eagle aka Spirit Bear aka bunbun
Jim et al - Once again, I must thank you. Your post made my point for me AGAIN. The elitism doesn’t come from hiking multiple times. It’s the way you post. You’re not getting it. And this is the last time I will try to get you to think about what you’re doing. Unfortunately, you’re blind to any opinions except your own.
Think about this: I am not now and never will be “one of the elite”. I don’t want to be in your club. I’m just a hiker. I don’t want or need any of the recognition that the elite want and need.
Yes, I sat in your CDT workshop. That has nothing to do with this thread. Your workshop was great. The tone of your posts here is not. Your responses here are exactly why many new people do not publically ask the questions they want. And why I get multiple private emails from hikers each week—emails that always start off with something like: “I’d like to post this to PCT-L or trailforums, but I don’t want to get called stupid”. You post as if your way is the only way and everyone else’s experiences are less than yours. This is getting old. And is benefits no one.
Then there’s the “snow” thing - I have one and a half full pages in my book basically begging people to learn how to use an axe, to carry it, and to have the axe in their hands (not attached to their packs) when traveling on snow. I clearly stated that the opinions expressed in the book are not expert opinions. A direct quote from the book: “I’m not an expert. None of the hikers who’ve commented in this book are experts. We’re simply presenting what we did and saw on our thru-hikes.”
Don’t tell me what I do and don’t know—because YOU DON’T KNOW. I wrote what I believe to be right. “You know what you wrote is simply wrong” ----- that statement is nonsense.
I set a fine example. I don’t need your approval.
I guess the troll got what he/she wanted. An argument which didn’t need to be hashed out.
I’m finished with this thread.
Jim/Ginny - I enjoyed meeting you, and I hope we can have a good hiking friendship.
yogi
"I’m not an expert. None of the hikers who’ve commented in this book are experts. We’re simply presenting what we did and saw on our thru-hikes."
That’s a refreshingly honest attitude, Yogi. Thanks. Here again is where you differ from the “elite” like Jim or Wingfoot. They claim/pose as experts who consider their word the “final” word on the topic.
I’m a PCT dreamer, and so I’m ordering your book to enhance my dream.
Anonymous,
If Yogi’s book will get more people to get off the couch, away from the “idiot box” and start hiking the PCT, then more power to her and the book. This country needs more people to get out and walk, hike, bike, canoe, sail, etc. Let’s get physical. Come on folks, grab a hiking stick and head for the PCT.
Take five