Bear canister overflow

imported
#1

I’m hiking the John Muir Trail this summer. I’m finishing packing up my food for my resupply and test-fit the food for the last leg of the trip, Muir Trail Ranch -> Whitney Portal, and realized that I will not be able to fit all that food in the canister. I will probably have to leave 2 days of food outside of the cansiter. My planned camp spots for those 2 nights are McClure Meadow and just before LeConte Canyon. So I have two questions:

  1. Is a bear canister required by law in those parts?

  2. Should I hang my extra food using the PCT method, or should I pick up a URSACK?

Thanks!
Bob

Bob

#2

A bear canister is required in those parts. The Sequoia & Kings Canyon Park website says this:

“Through hikers along the Pacific Crest Trail and the John Muir Trail with a valid wilderness permit must use portable, park approved, bearproof food storage containers or camp at sites with food storage lockers and use the lockers.”

Maybe if you have an invalid permit you’d be exempt from the food storage regulations ! :wink:

Go to www.pcthandbook.com then click on CHANGES/UPDATES on the far right to see a synopsis of what I could deduce from the Yosemite and Sequoia/Kings Canyon websites regarding food storage.

yogi

www.pcthandbook.com

yogi

#3

Yogi,

Thank you for the link. The quote above is under the “Special restrictions” area on the Sequoia & Kings Canyon Park website. It appears that canisters are only required in the areas designated there and that hanging your food is allowed, although discouraged, in other areas. They specify the Rae Lakes loop, the Dusty Basin, and Rock Creek drainage. I don’t believe the 2 camps sites where I’ll have overflow are in those areas.

Is that how you read it?

Thanks,
Bob

Bob

#4

Yogi,

Just want to add to the above… Do you know if there are good trees to hang food in McClure Meadow and just before LeConte Canyon (south bound).

Thanks!
Bob

Bob

#5

Bob, I think there are probably good trees in McClure. Not sure what you mean by “just before LeConte Canyon.” If you are referring to the section of the canyon just before Big and Little Pete Meadows, my answer is maybe. The trees get larger and more suitable for hanging as you descend into the canyon. If you stopped too far before the Meadows, I don’t think they would be big enough. But if you hike down the canyon far enough, you should find something.

Kanga

#6

The regulations are confusing. I spent an entire day reviewing the Sequoia/Kings and Yosemite websites to try to figure out where canisters are required.

Storing food properly in the parks seems to occur for two reasons:

(1) to avoid getting a ticket from a Ranger.

(2) to avoid having a bear take your food.

The time of year you hike will have an effect on the bear activity. If your JMT hike is coming up this summer, you’ll probably have bear activity. If it’s at the beginning of the season (PCT thru-hiker time), the bears aren’t as active.

To avoid receiving a ticket, you should be polite to the rangers, know the regulations, and show genuine concern for keeping the bears safe. Suppose you see a Ranger on the night that you incorrectly store your extra two days of food. Explain that you have a canister, you looked at the websites, you researched your campsites, blah, blah, blah, but now there is a storm coming in and you feel you need to camp now . . . . blah, blah, blah. (By the way, they won’t know about your extra two days of food unless you show it to them. All they want to see is your canister.)

Big Trees - I think there are big trees in both Big & Little Pete Meadows and McClure meadows. If you do hang your food, be prepared to defend it. The bears in the parks are SMART.

Regarding URSACKS - the Yosemite website states they are not approved, but they’re not mentioned on the Sequoia/Kings website.

yogi

www.pcthandbook.com

yogi

#7

Sequoia/Kings Canyon uses the same list of approved food storage containers that Yosemite does. Yogi makes a good point about the time of year you are hiking. We went through LeConte Canyon in August last year and the bears were out in force. We even saw bears out in the middle of the day, including a mama and cub right by our lunch spot at the junction of LeConte and Palisades canyons.

Kanga

#8

My Sierra bear theory - admittedly subject to endless debate and differing opinions.

There are Sierra campground bears and there are Sierra backcountry bears. The latter, left alone with escape options, don’t want anything to do with humans. But unfortunately, it seems to take just a single successful food raid (many the result of a campers “Life is a lot harder when you’re stupid” actins) for a backcountry bear to become a campground bear. Even so, they will associate food with campgrounds.

Stalth camping - the Ray way - has worked for me. Don’t camp at “established” spots. Plan ahead and if necessary dry camp. Toward evening fill up with extra water (I carry a Nalgene canteen) and camp away from the multitudes at any flat spot you can find. You’ll be surprised how small the site really has to be.

A little extra effort hauling the water, but camping away from water / natural bear food sources minimizes your chances of a bear encounter.

A different subject: Ranger interactions. In 18 years of solo hiking in the Sierra I have encountered many rangers, but only once (at Tunnel Station before the rangers themselves accidently burned the thing down) was I asked to show my permit or answer questions regarding my camping style.

Is this unusual? Is it because I’m solo? How often are folks being asked to produce documents or canisters or other info?

booger

#9

I’ve hiked the JMT/PCT in early-mid June three times. Each time I saw one Ranger. Each time the Ranger asked to see my permit and asked what I was doing to “protect my food”. I’ve never carried a canister. I had an URSACK in 2001 (they were approved that year). In 2002 and 2003 I slept with my food under my feet.

Every Ranger I talked to said that they don’t worry about PCT hikers because — and this is a quote from one Ranger — “PCT hikers have more to lose if they lose their food”.

I always either stealth camp or camp at an established site with lockers. Camping at an established site without lockers is asking for bear trouble no matter what time of year it is.

yogi

www.pcthandbook.com

yogi

#10

I suppose I should add that I’ve never had a bear visit my campsite — EVER. Not on the AT, PCT, or CDT. I’m a firm believer in stealth camping.

yogi

www.pcthandbook.com

yogi

#11

Everyone - thank you for the great feedback! I guess I’ll stealthcamp and hang my food those 2 nights.

Is sleeping with food “under your feet” dangerous? Will the bears try to pull food out from under you? Or will they leave it alone if it is in your possession?

Also, when I read the webpage it seems that there are parts of Squoia & Kings Canyon NP that allow hanging. There is even a link on the website to instructions for the counter balance technique. Does anyone else interpret the webpage that way? http://www.nps.gov/seki/snrm/wildlife/food_storage.htm

Thanks,
Bob

Bob

#12

I talked with several rangers last year, but was never asked to show my permit. When I hiked the JMT three years ago I had to show it several times. On other hikes I am only occasionally asked for my permit. You are most likely to be asked in popular areas near a trailhead (Yosemite, Whitney and the Rae Lakes area), although there are backcountry ranger cabins in McClure (I think – might be one of the others) and LeConte canyon, so it is possible. Like Yogi said, unless you volunteer the fact that you have extra food that doesn’t fit in your can (or unless they see it hanging in a tree), they probably won’t ask.

I agree that stealth camping and camping at high elevation, usually work well. The one caveat is that in peak season it might be difficult to find a true “stealth” site along the JMT in the areas you’re thinking about camping, and I think the bears along the JMT are fairly well food-habituated.

Kanga

#13

Another self-generated bear theory. In addition to stealth camping, I wrap my food (mostly freeze dried or Ramen) in freezer bags, put those bags in stuff sacks, put the stuff sacks in my pack, keep the pack in my tent (Northface Slickrock) and place my boots, socks, & shirt on the pack.

After a couple days of solo backcountry travel I get used to my smell, but figure it helps mask the smell of the pack. And after a week I can’t imagine anything could find those old socks and shirt apetizing.

Can’t vouche for the validity of this next one, but one old timer said that spraying pee around your tent perimeter (a much easier guy thing) will keep the bears away.

I’ve never had bear problems doing the pack / smell masking thing, but have twice had bears get my “properly” hung food bag.

booger

#14

Bears that are very food habituated WILL try to steal your food or pack from underneath your tarp. Here is one account of a bear taking an empty pack from beneath someone’s rainfly:

I also talked to two guys who had a pack stolen while lying next to it underneath their tarp at a campsite above Lyell Canyon (very agressive, food habituated bears). But, they were able to get the pack back by chasing the bear down (not recommended, but it worked).

I think Ursack sells supposedly odor-proof bags. That combined with stealth camping . . . and possibly marking your tent perimter (I’ve also heard it works) . . . ought to give you a much better chance at a good night’s sleep.

Kanga

#15

Bears that are very food habituated WILL try to steal your food or pack from underneath your tarp. Here is one account of a bear taking an empty pack from beneath someone’s rainfly:

I also talked to two guys who had a pack stolen while lying next to it underneath their tarp at a campsite above Lyell Canyon (very agressive, food habituated bears). But, they were able to get the pack back by chasing the bear down (not recommended, but it worked).

I think Ursack sells supposedly odor-proof bags. Not sure if they offer any more protection than freezer ziplocks, but some kind of odor barrier combined with stealth camping . . . and possibly marking your tent perimter (I’ve also heard it works) . . . ought to give you a much better chance at a good night’s sleep.

Kanga

#16

Probably the worst place for habituated bears in the Sierra - besides perhaps Yosemite Valley - is the area around Onion Valley. The locals say it’s caused by the ability of hordes of “L.A. people with a Disneyland mentality” - short termers without a clue about the wilderness - to easily access the backcountry over Kearsarge. I’ve seen some amazingly stupid behavior that absolutely defies logic and common sense - and “don’t bother me” attitudes that are totally at odds with what one usually finds in the backcountry.

booger

#17

I hiked the JMT with my buddy in 2002. I carried a cannister but only ever had bear issues at two established campsites in Yosemite. I also met some trail maintainers near silver pass who asked me how I was storing my food, I gave him my pack and asked him to feel the weight, he knew then that i had the cannister.

Like the others said, I don’t believe they’re totally neccessary if you stealth camp (as we did after the bear encounters). After all, bears are like us, creatures of habit.

Oh, and my last point. We managed, after careful planning, to stuff 14 days of food into each of our cannisters. We ate alot of rice and other easily compactable foods on that trip, and even had the privelage of taking two zero’s next to the San Joquain, well off trail. If you examine the space that is avaliable to you within the cannister and think laterally about what foods compact well, you’ll be surprised what you can fit in those things. Was the extra weight worth it? Sometimes it sucked but it made those consecutive zero’s possible, something I’ll never forget for as long as i live.

Cheers

P.S Check out the Hot Springs across the river from Muir Trail Ranch, they’re awsome after a days hiking.

Cheers

#18

I hiked the JMT last year and used a bearikade weekender for my partner and I. We did get stopped twice by rangers for out permit and for a canister check, but we had absolutely no bear problems (that we know of;). We had a similar dilema coming out of VVR - we were carrying 9 days worth of food for two in the weekender…hmmm…

Basically, I decided to send some food back home and only take what I could fit in the canister - and it was ALL very compactable food. That was a REALLY stupid thing to do. Sure - we lived, but we didn’t have nearly enough calories/day and we were putting in big miles and going over sometimes two passes a day at that point. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Big miles and no food makes jackalope a dull girl. If I had to do it again, I would have hung the extra food and trash for a few days until everything fit. Hindsight is 20/20, eh?

Good luck!

jackalope

#19

Rangers
I read this and wanted to add my two cents, since I’m a ranger (rookie @ state park).
Yogi wrote, “To avoid receiving a ticket, you should be polite to the rangers, know the regulations, and show genuine concern for keeping the bears safe. Suppose you see a Ranger on the night that you incorrectly store your extra two days of food. Explain that you have a canister, you looked at the websites, you researched your campsites, blah, blah, blah, but now there is a storm coming in and you feel you need to camp now . . . . blah, blah, blah.” I wish the public would do exactly what she said! A lot of the times it’s all about attitude and genuine concern. And I agree, don’t offer information unless asked (I’m not telling you to do something illegal). For example, the other day a man asked me if I was going to be checking for fishing licenses because he didn’t have one. DUH!!! Know the rules and regs.

A.B.

A.B.

#20

Food Under Feet
Bears that are very food habituated WILL try to steal your food or pack from underneath your tarp. Here is one account of a bear taking an empty pack from beneath someone’s rainfly:

I also talked to two guys who had a pack stolen while lying next to it underneath their tarp at a campsite above Lyell Canyon (very agressive, food habituated bears). But, they were able to get the pack back by chasing the bear down (not recommended, but it worked).

i was there that night, lol. bear visited my site first then headed across the bridge. they kept their food in their packs, no canister. heard them shouting about 10 min after the bear left. think it was around 3:30-4am.
i usually leave a bell on my pack at night, that woke me up.:lol

ppereira007