Rain gear vs Wind gear

imported
#1

I’m thinking about buying a new jacket, but I’m not sure what I want to buy. So here’s a question…what’s the difference between a waterproof/breathable shell, a wind jacket and a rain jacket?

I know the obvious answer - rain gear is less breathable, and a wind jacket is less waterproof. But how do they actually perform while backpacking? Do people generally carry one of each? Seems like that might add unneccessary weight. Can you get buy with just a wind jacket? Or why carry a wind jacket when you can just carry a breathable rain jacket? Except in a few sections (the Whites), is there really that much wind on the AT?

I was also looking at other combinations - poncho, packa, windshirt/umbrella, etc. I do most of my hiking in the south and east, so vegetation and humidity are both issues.

What has worked and not worked for you guys in the past?

Also, has anyone made a good homemade garment? What materials/design did you use?

Jeff

Jeff

#2

I used a Redledge $50.00 jacket and $30.00 pants in 02. They were a kind of “waterproof” windbreaker. Keeping the wind from blowing on you really helps keep you warm even if your damp underneath. I found that these two items where lite enough to carry and were very good for keeping me warm on a rainy day or on a windy day.

Virginian

#3

A solid waterproof breathable rainshell is to me one of the most important pieces of gear. In the mountains, hypothermia can strike at any time of year, and a shell that doesn’t keep you dry can easily bring on those dangerous chills.
A wind shell is worthless in a storm. It will be soaked in minutes if it’s raining hard enough. Non-breathable shells will feel terrible in the humid south, and can trap enough sweat to make you wet anyway.
There’s no need to carry a wind shell in addition to a rain shell. Rain shells are windproof and will work fine at keeping out cold gusts.
I know that some lightweight hikers carry ponchos as they are very light and can even do double duty as shell and shelter. I don’t have experience with this though. In my understanding, it takes some skill and experience to pull that off.
Gore-tex or an equivalent is the way to go. If weight is an issue, the Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic are waterproof and breathable and a good bit lighter than an average 3 layer Gore-tex shell. I believe that they might not be as breathable though. I haven’t had a chance to find out about that yet.
Whatever you do, just be sure that you’ll stay dry, no matter what! Dryness is a major safety issue, any time of the year.

cramer

#4

Excellent question and I’m surprised it hasn’t prompted more of a response…probably cause now is a popular time to be out hiking and not at home sitting in front of the computer.

I thru-hiked last year and am not sure I know what to recommend. I started out with a heavy (18 ounce) LL Bean parka with zip vents. I loved it in the cold driving 50 mph 20 degree winds (estimate) over Roan Mountain…but it was heavy to pack.

In Waynesboro I replaced it with the lightest hooded rain parka I could find (6 ounces) which was fine the rest of the hike…and it was a rainy year. My “failsafe” plan was the Pategonia stretch top (worth its weight in gold) and this…the combo kept me plenty warm in the Whites when it got cold, wet and windy again.

As far as pants…I started out heavy again with 16+ ounce Schoeller Guide Pants. Again…they were great at first but I later ditched them for light 6 ounce Marmot rain pants. I did not wear these a lot, but when I did, they were good at keeping water from running down my legs in grassy overgrown areas. I also wore them in the laundromat as most don’t appreciate hikers doing their wash naked. When I re-hiked the first 200 miles this March, the rain pants sufficed…and it was VERY cold and windy at times. Oh…I always had my silk long johns as a back up too.

I do know of other hikers that packed the wind gear, but I’m not sure of their other items…that is not sure if they packed both wind and rain gear…I don’t think so.

Good responses from Virginian and cramer but I found it difficult to stay “dry” while hiking in anything as I sweat like crazy.

Skeemer

#5

I have found that frogg toggs cover both wind and water protection well. I do worry about them not being tough enough to hold up during a hike but it seems that many thru hikers use them and they have held up very well to my weekend/section hikes.

boagus

#6

I’m glad to hear that the frog toggs seem to be working. My wife and I got some for our thru hike starting 6/24/04. Just trying them on they seem quite warm although they claim to be breathable. They seem well made and they are very light (less than a pound for the jacket and pants). We are also going to carry the golite umbrella…at least for a while!

Little Bump and Flounder

#7

I too would recommend waterproof rain gear, as opposed to windproof water-resistant (but not waterproof) wind gear. I have found that most long distance hikers carry only one kind, and rain gear is the safest route.

Like many, I started out with rain gear that was too heavy (Goretex jacket weighing ~20oz, w/b pants weighing ~18oz) and soon switched them for something lighter. In my case, I switched them for wind gear, because there weren’t any lighter waterproof breathable designs available yet that were affordable (this was in Spring 2000 before the Precip appeared on the market). I was immediately made miserable by the wet and cold weather and opted to get my older stuff back, regardless of weight. Once summer arrived, I got my wind gear back, but it wasn’t effective at all against the summer rains, so I continually got soaked. Once I got to New England I had my rain gear sent back to me and enjoyed their protection once again.

By this time, lighter-weight alternatives were begining to appear in outfitters along the way. As my wallet thinned, however, I became more resistant to purchasing one. The one time I let my guard down and relented to purchasing one, the purchase price was $15 more than everywhere else I’d seen it (this was in Kent, CT…duh) so I resisted until the next town, at which time I had regained my defenses.

After the trail, I found the Red Ledge Thunderlight series at my local outfitter. The Anorak was ~$50 and the pants were ~$35. The entire set weighed less than 1 pound and it was waterproof and breathable. I bought a set and have been using this rainwear for the past ~3 years now. I’ve had to replace each garment once, as the coatings do delaminate over time, but I’ve used them a great deal and think that they really are a great deal.

I’m going to try my hand at sewing my own rain gear this summer, I’ll make them out of 1.1oz silnylon for weight reasons (the entire set should weigh about 6-7oz). They won’t be breathable, but I’m not convinced that breathability is all that effective in a high-humidity environment like the southeast anyway.

-Howie

Hungry Howie

#8

Preparing for my hike into Damascus last month I had exactly this question in mind. I went back and forth about whether to pack my Red Ledge rain gear or a poncho (it always rains during Trail Days, right?). In much agony over the whole thing, I ended up carrying a poncho; lightest I could find that would hold up. The weather stayed warm with light rains, so I didn’t need to use them. A backpackers lightweight poncho is a good choice (not what I used) - it’s long enough in the back to slip over your pack so you don’t have to remove pack to put on pack cover or put on your rain jacket. Poncho also can be used as a groundcloth. It’s just so darn drapey with all that material hanging. Ugh. Frog Toggs are gaining in popularity…would like to hear more about their durability. Red Ledge raingear is a proven brand, but may be a little weighty for the ultra-lites. You just need to keep trying different things until one works for YOU…

Peep

#9

Instead of a fleece, prefer a Marmot windshirt. A men’s large weighs 12oz. Light, compresses small, windproof. Great for light rain and snow.

For heavier rain, use a simple coated nylon rain jacket. 8 oz.

So for 20 oz I have gear that sees me through the nastiest of three-season hiking weather.

I should note, this gear is based on my hiking style: very little time in camp, short breaks. I tend to move most of the day so my body warmth is an important part of my system for keeping me warm and dry.

YMMV.

Mags

#10

Umbrellas are really amazing. When you toss the paradigm about what an “umbrella” is, you soon realize what you’ve got is instant, portable shelter. When it rains, and everyone is sweating in their nylon and gor-tex, I’m cruising with my shirt off, no pack cover, and still snapping pictures or reading a map or writing my journal or whatever. With a little care, they go a long way, but probably will be replaced at least once in a 2000+ miles hike.

I also carry a very light waterproof shell, but usally only wear it when I stop and start cooling down, or around camp.

Try it out.

Tha Wookie

#11

Patagonia has a wind shirt that weights only 4 oz and packs about the size of an apple. It is called the Dragonfly and I find that it and a light base layer like the Patagonia R5 can keep me warm in temperatures down to the teens. It also repels light rains and drys in minutes. I prefer the Dragonfly to my rain gear because I don’t get wet from inside.

Ka-Bar

#12

Wook, how does the umbrella hold up in dense vegetation? Did you use it on the AT? And for the windy rain, I assume your shell has a hood?

Here’s what got me thinking about this - I’ve always been happy with my poncho. It’s a little thicker, military issue poncho, so it drapes nicely over the pack and doesn’t stick to my legs or anything. But this weekend’s hike had significant climbs in dense brush, and it didn’t take long until the inside front of the poncho was just as wet as the outside. Water was dripping down from the face opening, but if I cinched it tight I lost a lot of ventilation. Since I was wearing a Coolmax shirt, the wetness didn’t bother me too much, but I didn’t want to get too hot. It did keep my pack nice and dry, though. As long as I stayed warm, I could deal with being wet.

So I was trying to come up with a solution that would work in all environments…the holy grail, I guess. The umbrella would snag on trees, or the trees would brush against you beneath the umbrella and you’d still get wet. But with those climbs, and the humidity, the rain jacket would keep you just as wet so that’s no better.

The rain let up a little, so I ducked under a rock overhang, took off my poncho and threw a garbage bag over my pack. I just got a little wet, figuring if it turned cold I could always just set up camp…of course THAT didn’t happen in South Carolina!

I love my poncho, but I think for those kinds of hikes I’ll leave it at home next time and take something else. Maybe a cheap, light rain jacket (silnylon?) for extremely wet weather, and a pack-cover and just deal with being wet when it’s warm. Then when it’s not so dense, the umbrella would keep me nice and dry.

Has anyone made a silnylon rainsuit?

Jeff

Jeff

#13

I bought a Patagonia Dragonfly pullover last year (windbreaker that was water resistant). It was worn a TON. It was light enough to wear when it was cool and I was hiking, or at night over my t-shirt. when it was cold it held in enough heat to work wonders. It resisted a good amount of rain. But face it…if you repel the rain, you are sweating in your garb and wet anyway. I just wore either this if it was cold or if it was raining and we weren’t hiking. Just hike till you dry out. That is the best piece of advice. You’ll dry out eventually (either changing clothes at the end of the night or hiking). Don’t waste the weight on “rain jackets”, get something light that will hold in enough heat to wear when not hiking, but active enough to hold in not to much when hiking. The Dragonfly worked wonderful.

Michael Sanwald

#14

Bring on the pun!
Seriously, I am thinking of the same thing. The weigh I figure, I need enough warmth, or resourcesfulness, to keep myself alive if I happened to become injured and cannot walk. As for not being injured, I am probably going to be walking and generating a bit of heat. With all of this high tech gear nowadays, I have a tremendous amount of confidence in my ability to keep warm in camp.
Now, in my experience, which probaby isn’t so limited anymore, I think I can get by with windproof and not waterproof shells for backpacking. Now this morning it was about 50 degrees, rainy, and about 10 mph winds when I was fishing. definitely had on the Goretex, wicking shirt and fleece vest, and probably could have worn more and not regretted it. It is a sedentary activity and doesn’t generate much heat.
Same weather on many backpacking trips, I next to never use a shell in the same weather. Increasing wind might change my mind adn break out the shell, but not likely. In fact, I have chosen to remain cold in the t shirt walking, saving the dry clothes for camp when I know I will want them. In the interest of keeping the pack light and the clothes dry, I will wear a warm hat and a t shirt in the rain over the shell.
Depends on your level of confidence. Now, backcounrty skiing my faith in being able to stay warm is not as good and I usually take a foam sleeping pad and a heavy jacket in addition to what I am wearing.
It is always fun to challenge the elements, there’s always an element of risk, experience and knowledge are the best teachers. Most days in the mountains the weather is not deadly, you just have to outfox yourself and not do something stupid on the days that it might be.
It is gambling every time in a way.

BTW- does anyone still believe in the “ten essentials?” if so what are they.

Bandito

#15

I bought the red ledge after years of no luck with expensive gore products and have wore nothing but wind pants for years. I was sick of all the breathable crap for years, understand?

I wore the RED LEDGE full side zip pants and they almost breath as well as my wind pants to my amazement in this type of weather in the northeast right now. I love em for the $40 at campmor so far. And they even look cool to wear for town pants to. The jackets got to work just as well, but I didn’t get that cold yet.

Just in case you didn’t know, I wear Walmart microfiber shorts with a liner and handpockets underneath, this way after I warm up, I can take em off without taking off my boots and I’m hiking in shorts in seconds. or the other way around. I can put on the full side zips when I reach the summit just as fast with my shoes on. Now that’s layering at its best to me.

You’ll understand what I mean after you try it. RED LEDGE is the best if your going up into the mountains with a backpack on and need 200-300 wt. fleece. No way around it.:slight_smile:

Greg

#16

I was writing about something else.

But if I was to go on a 2 week hike with you down south this summer Jeff or something like that, OK? I would carry the umbrella like they say or the 9oz Equinox Poncho in my case, that I would probably carry for a tarp tent then to. Cause the warm rain feels good on me when I’m hot and sweaty even with wet feet and its 90 or something, but if that rain runs down my crack, I’m finished hiking in the rain.:frowning:

You just afraid to say it.:lol :cheers

Greg

#17

i gave the umbrella a good shake on my 500 mile AT journey this spring, and i am not sold. in spring and fall, i like having a light rain jacket like the precip around just for that extra layer of warmth. so i was carrying both, both 9 oz. it just so happened, as it often does, that it only rained twice in my first 10 days, and here i am lugging a whopping 9 oz that i never, ever used. the umbrella (on the AT) is such a one use item, i couldnt justify its heaviness. i just rocked the multi use jacket for the same wieght. personally i feel more secure with a precip (9oz) than i do with an umbrella (9oz) and a windshirt (3oz). just my personal findings.

milo

#18

Hi, I like my Mountain Hardwear Tempest Jacket. Windproof, waterproof, breathable and a light fuzzy lining. If it is windy, chances are you are looking for some protection and a little warmth? This would be the jacket for that, and not for 90 degree summer time.

I just use Marmot precip bottoms. They work, you can vent with the zipper if you get too hot and sticky.

Blip

#19

in the warmer months I used a $1 emergency rain parka from Walmart. You can use it over and over if you are careful enough not to snag it on branches along the Trail. They are available in towns all along the Trail for up to $3 and lite enough (1 oz.) that you can carry a spare. Excellent ventalation and keeps your pack dry too. It’s a little tricky getting it on over your pack by yourself but I did it several times. If I turn into a genuine “lite freak” I might even ditch the 6 oz. parka and go with it alone, especially in a dry year.

Skeemer

#20

What Skeemer says is right about the $1 ultra-cheap, ultra- lite ponchos/rain parkas being a good option in if it works for you - but be sure and carry at least 2 because they’re very thin and tear easily. I ripped mine first thing when I tried to put my pack on AFTER I had the poncho on - ripped the h*** out of it; like Skeem said - just throw the back of it right over your pack (won’t cover your butt or back of your legs then though)and because it’s so lite - might blow every which way in the wind. One more thing - personally, I find them to be a hassle.

Peep