USA - Appalachian Trail

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#21

We are better.

It’s not arrogant to say your the best if it’s true. We are higher, we are mightier. AND I’M NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE FOR IT!

Just ask baseball fans about the Yankee’s and the Tigers. Are the Yankees arrogant? or just very very good?

As for the rest of the world some admire us, some envy us, some fear us. The US while not perfect hold a noble standard high and proud. We are the worlds best hope for the future and for freedom.

WRT the US and going to war. I couldn’t care less what the UN says. We are a sovreign nation and I give no allegiance to the UN and give zero recognition to any authority they may wish to impose upon me. If Bush did anything stupid it was going to the UN in the first place.

What Bush said was spot on and courageous. Principle is more important then approval.

In the war agaist terror nations will either be with us or against us. We hope other nations will have a change of heart and support us. If they don’t then we’ll stay the course alone. But if anyone owes anyone an apology it’s France, Russia and Germany for betraying us before the world.

Tu

Tu

#22

One day many thousands of years from now, these days and the last several thousand years of mankind, will be known as the thousands of years of religious wars: The Crusades, Northern Ireland and England, The Iraq wars, the Persian Gulf wars, the Christan/Moslem wars, the Jewish/Moslem wars, the Inquisitions, etc. Hopefully mankind will be doing the remembering, but we may not survive. And I doubt we will, if we don’t start having and preaching tolerance. We need to read, live and understand “The Three Rings” and stop all this foolish religious hatred, else we all do ourselves in. But on the other hand, war does help to control the population by keeping our numbers down and by creating and contributing to famines, poverty and the like. And it is a reminder to all of us that we have not outgrown our savage roots. We have lasted a little over 200 years as a country, while Rome lasted 5000 or so and controlled the world, and they were not nice and peaceful about how they did it (massive crusifictions to keep the peace and maintain control and order). But we are much too nice. Fighting for peace is a contradiction. It’s things like this that tempt me to get on the AT and hike and hike and hike. Would that I could stay there in that world forever and not have to think about things like this. :cheers

Maintain

#23

Thanks, Tu. I’m proud of what you guys and gals did, and continue to do in Iraq. My son wants to join the military when he graduates from college as he feels a duty to serve his country. 9/11 heightened our awareness of our vulnerability. We will never be the same. Oh, yeah, glad to have you on the AT with me. Diversity is good.

Debby

#24

Your son wants to spend four years going through college to then join the military? why…? So he can make 19k/year, shower with men, get told when to use the eat, shower and pee, be eligible for food stamps, go kill innocent women and children, then get crapped upon by our own government when he’s a veteran… or worse a pow? Interesting choice. Our military has done many good things for us in the past, but they are only being use as puppets in this killing machine of a war that daddy bush started. We’re asking for future terrorist attacks by globally attacking countries.

guru

#25

Aaah Tu, yes you are the best, at being arrogant! You know those guys who crashed the planes?? Evangelists and Extremeists. You and them have much in common. Zelots ready to go out and kill everyone else who doesnt believe like you believe.

"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man [woman] whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him [her]. Will he [she] gain anything by it? Will it restore him [her] to a control over his [her] own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions?

Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

  • One of the last notes left behind by Gandhi in 1948, expressing his deepest social thought.

Peace

#26

Arrogant: 1. Making unwarrantable claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights. 2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance.

Arrogance: 1. A feeling of superiority or an offensive exhibition of it. persumptuous or overbearing conduct, statments, etc., resulting from such a feeling.

By this definition I am not arrogant, for I speak not out of feeling, but rather out of conviction/belief.

If you perceive me as being arrogant it is probably because your afraid I’m right. Otherwise you’d refer to me as deluded, have a good laugh and walk on. I’d actually respect that.

Then you said

“You know those guys who crashed the planes?? Evangelists and Extremeists. You and them have much in common. Zelots ready to go out and kill everyone else who doesnt believe like you believe.”

Now that’s funny. Dude, what are you smokin?

Tu

Tu

#27

You’ve got nothing to prove, Tu. Honor, duty, and integrity have nothing in common with arrogance. I know that I speak for many when I say that I am grateful for the sacrifices you’re making to help preserve our freedom, safety, and way of life. Thank you! And Debby, your son may well be able to enter the military as an officer following college graduation. It’s a good quality of life; there won’t be any food stamps.

Tennessee

#28

tu-
your= possession
you’re= you’re

…ignorance is bliss…

guru

#29

Well, it’s like this: The military needs men and women who are rational, educated and dedicated to the country and the ideals we have always honored. That’s my son! And Guru, you sound like me when I was a young woman in the 60’s, before I found out that there were things worth fighting for. Believe it or not, back then I thought the only thing my kids could do to disappoint me was to go to military school!! Funny how things change. I know your heart is in the right place, but if we all thought like you the children who were in the prisions in Iraq would still be there, torture would still be the order of the day, and the women would still be treated like cattle in Afganistan. All the women there were backpackers, remember? Now they have a choice. Not perfect yet, but better by far. Thanks to Daddy Bush and the brave military. Go, Go, USA!!

Debby

#30

debby, sorry to tell you that the situation in afghan. is no better for women today and in fact, in some ways is worse. the violence against them is again intense. girls schools are have been burnt down and women again subject to rape as violence continues-is this the “violence solves more than peace” idea tu refers to?? the binary, either or thinking is exactly what pols would like us to engage in, i.e., you are either with us or against us. how nice when they define what “with us” means. there is no historical evidence to support tu’s claim that violence solves more. being in the mil. does not give anyone more claim to knowing what is right regarding military actions. debby, if you are suggesting that the end justifies the means, i.e., b/c hussain was a monster, our actions are ok. pls. think about the logical conclusion of that thinking. how many dictators are out there? should we go after them all? or only ones w/oil? remember it was the bush admin. that said we had no strategic interest in liberia. there a dictator, massive suffering, but no oil. by telling the international community to get lost, we have ensured they will feel justified in doing the same to us. re: tu’s comment about sovereignty and territorial integrity, iraq as a sovereign state was entitled to the same. where are the weapons of mass destruction? the proof of terrorist ties? in fact al queda hated hussain b/c he was a secularist. pls. try to think of this issue as the complicated one it is and not respond w/misplaced emotional patriotism. france, etc., decided not to support us for a variety of reasons, including international law, domestic preference (they are democracies after all), and of course as sovereign states, have that right. finally, re: mil. protecting my freedom, not quite. i feel much more threatened and vulnerable b/c of US mil. actions around the world. ever wonder why no one attacks Iceland? might have something to do w/the fact that they bother no one. something to ponder.

at2003

#31

wow, take a breath!

reeves

#32

The scum that took down the towers came from Saudi Arabia. We are still pumping that country with weapons. I hate to say it TU, but WE are slautering the wrong women and children. Many of you are victims of Weapons of Mass Deception.

Blue Jay

#33

Amen at2003

C-Giddy

#34

Let’s try to be intellectually honest for a moment.

You need not go off the deep end to make your point. We are not slaughtering people, you know that. The US military is the most professional and benevolent military in the world. In professional military circlres we are often criticized for being too cautious about civilian deaths. You may be against the war, but to say we slaughter the civilians of another nation is to be totally disrespectful of the men and women that serve so you may have the opportunity to dissent.

reeves

#35

You tell me how many civilians have died in Afganistan and Iraq. Using US Military numbers it exceeds the total Trade Center deaths. I’m not saying turn the other cheek, just kill the leaders of the correct country. I do not disrespect ground troops, their lives are on the line. I have zero respect for scum who yell out “bring it on”, then hide under their beds.

Blue Jay

#36

OK,

I don’t know the number, the fact that we have exceeded the WTC death toll is immaterial. War is not a tit for tat endeavor. We could have killed the enemy leadership had we rolled right in and carpet bombed the entire country. The civilian deaths are very regrettable but this is war and war is horrible and innocents get killed.

We also nuked Japan and firebombed Germany, I would say we have gotten far more humane in our war making and our ability to keep our country safe.

If you are referring to our President as scum, that is certainly your right, but he may be more accurate than you realize with the “bring it on” statement. Our enemy respects strengthand attacks weakness. 8 years of weak responses to terror attacks and the occasional cruise missle attacks emboldend our enemy to the point of Sept. 11th.

It would be great to be able to “just kill the leaders” but that is akin to asking police to " just shoot the guns out of their hands" when confronting criminals.

I love America and Americans. It is our right and duty to defend our country and our right and duty to dissent when we disagree. I am proud of both camps, the people that care enough about America to protest in the streets and care enough to go to Iraq and kill the enemy. God bless them all.

reeves

#37

…by and large are an ignorant bunch. A good percentage of them (IMO) are just plain dumb. They’ll swallow anything you give 'em, hook, line, and sinker. It’s actually pretty sad.

70% of the American public thinks that Saddam was involved in the WTC attack, despite that fact that there is not one iota of evidence linking him to that heinous crime.

30% of Californians would support Arnold for Governor - despite the fact that he refuses to debate any of the other candidates unless he receives a list of the questions in advance.

I really resent the fact that my children are being asked to pay for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let’s make war, but not ask the American people to make any sacrifices. Lets give 'em a tax cut. Let future generations pay for it.

Let’s get the oil in Alaska, but let’s not insist Detroit raise the average MPG in vehicles, or ask Americans to conserve energy, because that would “impact the American way of life”.

Lets continue to study Global Warming - at least until the next president is elected. Heaven forbid we should do anything about it now - like 90% of the rest of the world is willing to do.

I wish there was a politician out there that actually had some balls (male or female) and was willing to make some hard choices. Maybe actually go out on a limb for something - anything. Sadly, I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

Before you think I’m un-American, let me point out that I’m anything but. My family has been here since the 1650s, and fought in just about every major conflict from the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, WWI, WWII, Korea…

Somewhere along the line it became unpatriotic to speak you mind - in America no less. What a damn shame.

Little Bear

#38

Hey Guru if ignorance is bliss why are so many people miserable.

The whole middle east is … well very Bizantine. Anyone who says they understands the middle east is obviously very confused.

Al Queda has no problem in partnering with Hussein against the US because the enemy of my enemy becomes my friend. When we’re gone they’ll go back to hating each other as usual. In the meantime.

Curiously, I haven’t seen any body count numbers. Probably because our objective isn’t to kill people so much as impose our will upon them. The US is Schreck like. We’d rather settle it over a pint but …

BTW, where are all these women and children we’re killing? We take the utmost care to avoid inadvertant/incidental casualties. We’ve become much better at it then in previous wars. I haven’t even seen much Al Jezeera rhetoric this summer.

Couple of other things, the morality of a war is very much a concern of those in the military. My thinking follows Augustinian lines of “Jus Bellam”. If I were morally opposed to the war then I’d have stood down. Some in the military did take the conscientous objecter route. I respect that. The fact is that Sadam talked out of both sides of his mouth saying I don’t have WMD. Then informing the world what he would do to us with his WMD if we invaded. Someone said we don’t see war with any more moral clarity by being in the military. I couldn’t disagree more. Old men like me know the consequences of war. We’ve seen it. We don’t look forward to it. It is with great reluctance we pursue it. I’d have been perfectly content to finish my career in peace. 911 changed that. I’ll stay longer and defer my AT thru hike from 2005 to 2008. Hopefully I won’t end up like Soleman on a slab before I live my dream.

The Saudi government is walking a thin line between keeping their people happy and the US happy. They need the money from the worlds oil purchases and we need the oil. We carry a big stick and they know it. We will only apply enough pressure to achieve our goals.

To AT2003

I could list a hundred battles that changed the world. Some of them fought be a couple thousand and some of them fought by a couple of million. Even law is kept only because of the potential threat of men imposing the force necessary to compel compliance. Only force ever overthrew law. Even a Ghandi or a Martin Luther King applied force. For they were men who clearly understood the power of passive aggression. I deeply admire them for it.

Little Bear,

Yes, people are ignorant and simplistic. In this world their is just to much information to glean through. Is that a crime?

You resent your children having to pay for the war on terror. I resent having to pay for the drug war and the war on poverty. Both are miserable failures and completely unneeded.

I have no problem with pumping oil out of Alaska and no problem with requiring the car industry with increasing gas mileage. I have a big problem with not moving to fuel cells sooner.

Many people, myself included are dubious of global warming. I’ve heard the earth itself coffs up 99% more global warming gas then humans. Maybe we should cap volcanos. Are you being deceived? Am I being deceived? or are we both ignorant? Who is saying what and why? Is there grant money to be gained? A political green axe to grind? An oil industry that wants the next sixty years of profits. The truth is I don’t know.

When does someone become unpatriotic? My answer. When one defers to other nations over our nation when those nations have a vested interest in the opposition. That is unpatriotic.

Bottom line the current administration will not tolerate terrorisim and we will continue to take the fight to the enemy both militarily and economically. The US will exert only as much force as is necessary to erradicate the terrorisim threat. Those who aid terrorists will pay a price only to the point where the costs exceed the benefits of continuing to aid terrorisim.

This is wholly proper and just.

Tu

Tu

#39

Saudi Arabia is not walking a thin line. They accomplished what the Japan could not. They took down the World Trade Center and the United States Constitution (Patriot Act) and not only got away with it, but are laughing in our faces. We are now their lap dogs and kill exactly who they want, while they suck us dry. We have been scammed, how can you not see that? The attack was planned there, funded and manned from there with direct knowledge of the ruling families. Why do you think Bin Lauden was never captured, do you know who he is? Everything I’m saying is not hidden, they do not even need to lie about it. If you go outside you can hear all of us sheep bleating, kill more of our young soldiers for nothing.

Blue Jay

#40

Ask yourself why when all of the nonmilitary planes were forced down on 9/11 and 12, including a heart for a transplant, the plane carrying 20 members of Bin Lauden’s family was allowed not only to take off, but not one of them were even questioned. What is just coming out is that the White House authorized this action. Bush is soon going to be going down in flames himself. Nixon at least got to leave without the cuffs.

Blue Jay